BOARD MEETING STATE OF CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES BOARD RICHMOND CITY COUNCIL CHAMBERS 2600 BARRETT AVENUE THIRD FLOOR RICHMOND, CALIFORNIA THURSDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 2001 5:00 P.M. JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER LICENSE NUMBER 10063 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 ii APPEARANCES BOARD MEMBERS Dr. Allan Lloyd, Chairperson Mrs. Barbara Riordan Dr. William Burke Mr. Joseph Calhoun Supervisor Mark DeSaulnier Ms. Dorene D'Adamo Professor Hugh Friedman Mr. Matthew McKinnon STAFF Mr. Mike Kenny, Executive Officer Mr. Tom Cackette, Deputy Executive Officer Mr. Mike Scheible, Deputy Executive Officer Ms. Lynn Shenk, Deputy Executive Officer Mr. Bart Croes, Chief, Research Division Mr. Bob Fletcher, Chief, Planning and Technical Support Division Ms. Leslie Krinsk, Senior Staff Counsel Dr. Linda Murchison, Assistant Chief, Planning and Technical Support Division Mr. Randy Pasek, Chief, Emission Inventory Branch Mr. Dean Simeroth, Chief, Criteria Pollutants Branch, Stationary Source Division PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 iii APPEARANCES CONTINUED STAFF CONTINUED Mr. Peter Venturini, Chief, Stationary Source Division ALSO PRESENT Mr. Shankar Prasad, Community Health Advisor PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 iv INDEX PAGE Pledge of Allegiance 1 Roll Call 1 Opening remarks by Chairperson Lloyd 2,5 Opening remarks by Board Memeber DeSaulnier 3 Remarks by Councilmember Marquez 4 Item 01-2-1 7 Presentation by Mr. Croes 7 Questions and Discussion 8 Vote 8 Item 01-2-2 8 Chairperson Lloyd 9 Executive Director Kenny 10 Presentation by Mr. Pasek 11 Questions and Discussion 20 Presentation by Mr. Brisby 30 Questions and Discussion 35 Ms. Jean Siri 56 Mr. Denny Larson 58 Ms. Karen Susag 92 Ms. Ethel Dotson 96 Ms. Tina Cosentino 103 Ms. Wendy Banegas 105 Ms. Lucia Flores 107 Mr. Angelo Ramirez 108 Dr. Henry Clark 112 Ms. Karleen Lloyd 126 Adjournment 141 Reporter's Certificate 142 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 1 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Before I open the meeting, 3 I'd like to draw your attention that we have a translator 4 in the back there. We have has some earphones that are 5 available for those of you who need translation from 6 English to Spanish. 7 So if you need some help, please go to that lady 8 at the back in the corner. And if you'd like to make an 9 announcement? 10 (Thereupon the translator spoke in Spanish.) 11 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. 12 Good evening. The February 22nd, 2001 public 13 meeting of the Air Resources Board will now come to order. 14 Professor Friedman, would you kindly lead us in the Pledge 15 of Allegiance. 16 (Thereupon the Pledge of Allegiance was 17 recited.) 18 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. Will the clerk 19 please call the roll. 20 SECRETARY KAVAN: Dr. Burke? 21 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Here. 22 SECRETARY KAVAN: Mr. Calhoun? 23 BOARD MEMBER CALHOUN: Here. 24 SECRETARY KAVAN: Ms. D'Adamo? 25 Supervisor DeSaulnier? PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 2 1 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Here. 2 SECRETARY KAVAN: Professor Friedman? 3 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Here. 4 SECRETARY KAVAN: Dr. Friedman? 5 Mr. McKinnon? 6 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Here. 7 SECRETARY KAVAN: Supervisor Patrick? 8 Mrs. Riordan? 9 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Here. 10 SECRETARY KAVAN: Supervisor Roberts? 11 Chairman Lloyd? 12 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Here. 13 Good evening, everyone. My name is Allan Lloyd 14 and I am the Chairman of the State Air Resources Board. 15 It's a pleasure to be here, and I say this for myself and 16 on behalf of my fellow board members. I'd like to welcome 17 you all to the public meeting. 18 I hope you had the chance to view some of the 19 exhibits and meet with some of our staff at the open house 20 prior to the meeting. 21 I certainly enjoyed my discussions with the 22 people I got a chance to talk to, although I was hoping 23 that we would have a few more people from the community at 24 this time, but I'm sure that they will come in as the 25 evening progresses. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 3 1 This meeting is a depart from our typical board 2 meeting, but we wanted to have the opportunity to meet 3 with you, hear about air quality in your community and 4 answer questions that you may have. 5 We appreciate you taking the time to attend this 6 meeting and encourage you to participate by asking as many 7 questions or making statements as you wish. 8 We're delighted to be in the home territory of 9 Supervisor DeSaulnier and I would like to turn it over to 10 him so that he can have some additional comments. 11 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Thank you, Mr. 12 Chairman. I know some of my colleagues have often 13 wondered where I come from, so this is partially an 14 explanation. I'm thrilled that the CARB has selected 15 Richmond to have this meeting. West Contra Costa is the 16 industrial belt of the Bay Area, which includes Richmond, 17 Oakland, up through Martinez has had its fair share of 18 environmental justice issues through the history, and it 19 continues. So this attempt to outreach to the community 20 to try to get input, I think, is very valuable and most 21 appreciated. 22 I would like to introduce Councilmember John 23 Marquez. John helped us, for those of you who didn't 24 know, we had a ton of communication problems, and there 25 was the possibility, that I won't take personally, that we PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 4 1 might have been asked to leave in a half an hour. So 2 while I was trying to tell people at the City Manager's 3 office that I was important and please do something about 4 this, John walked in and saved the day. So, John, if 5 you'd like to say a few words of welcome, we would 6 appreciate it. 7 COUNCIL MEMBER MARQUEZ: Thank you very much. My 8 name is John Marquez. I'm a member of the Richmond City 9 Council. Mr. Chair and members of the Board -- there's a 10 switch up on top. 11 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Help us. 12 COUNCIL MEMBER MARQUEZ: I'm John Marquez. I'm a 13 member of the Richmond City Council. On behalf of the 14 Mayor and other members of the Council, I welcome you, Mr. 15 Chair and members of the Board and members of the 16 audience, to Richmond. 17 And I was -- I'm happy that was I able to save 18 the day for you all. I couldn't see all of you having to 19 leave here and have to continue the meeting outside for 20 lack of space. So we were very fortunate that our staff 21 was willing to accommodate the meeting that was scheduled 22 here later on this evening and moved to another location. 23 But, anyway, I wanted to welcome all of you here. 24 And I know that we're happy with the turn out of local 25 residents. To this point, it's not that great, but PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 5 1 remember Richmond is a working town, blue collar 2 community, although surrounded by industry, and hopefully 3 they'll be here after they get off work. 4 So, again, welcome to all of you and thank you 5 for the opportunity, Supervisor DeSaulnier. 6 Thank you very much. 7 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Thanks, John. 8 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 9 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you, Mr. DeSaulnier. 10 Thank you, Councilmember. And thank you for your 11 hospitality and your staff. We really appreciate it very 12 much. 13 Since not everyone knows what the Air Resources 14 Board is, let me just take a moment to explain. The Air 15 Resources Board is a State agency based in Sacramento. 16 Our mission is to protect public health by cleaning up the 17 air. We have an 11-member board and a staff of over 1,000 18 people based in Sacramento and in El Monte. 19 ARB regulates all mobile source air pollution 20 including cars and trucks. We also regulate motor vehicle 21 fuels such as gasoline, diesel, natural gas, et cetera. 22 Industrial sources, such as refineries, power 23 plants, manufacturing facilities are regulated by the 35 24 local air pollution control districts in California with 25 our oversight and support. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 6 1 Ellen Darby Director of the Air Quality 2 Management District is here to help us answer your 3 questions about the source of air pollution. For those of 4 you who do know Ellen, we are delighted to see you here 5 Ellen, and we'll be making sure that all the tough 6 questions will be addressed to you. 7 (Laughter.) 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Together, the Air Resources 9 Board and local air districts do everything they can to 10 address regional air quality problems, such as smog and 11 fine particles in cities and rural areas. We're also 12 jointly responsible for cleaning up toxics that increase 13 cancer risk. Our goal is to ensure that everyone in 14 California breathes clean, healthful air, stress everyone. 15 That means conducting all of our programs, 16 rule-making activities as State law requires in a manner 17 that ensures the fair treatment of all people, cultures 18 and income levels. And we've been reminded of this 19 recently and are pleased to be working very closely with 20 the Legislature in the implementation of SB 115, put 21 forward by Senator Solis in 1999. So that's where we are 22 and what we do. 23 However, turning to our agenda, we're planning to 24 do tonight a quick review of the Air Research proposal, 25 then to get to the heart of this evening's discussion. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 7 1 So our first agenda item is 01-2-1 and the 2 research proposal. And I guess I'll ask Mr. Croes to 3 introduce the item. 4 RESEARCH DIVISION CHIEF CROES: Good evening, 5 Chairman Lloyd and members of the Board. We have one 6 research proposal for your consideration today. 7 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Mr. Croes, for the audience, 8 maybe you can give us your responsibilities. 9 RESEARCH DIVISION CHIEF CROES: I'm Bart Croes. 10 I'm Chief of the Research Division of the Air Resources 11 Board and responsible for setting the health impacts and 12 the chemistry of air pollution here in California. 13 We have one research proposal for your 14 consideration today. Professor Barbara Finlyson-Pitts of 15 the University of California at Irvine proposes to study 16 the chemistry of small particles. Previous results from 17 her laboratory for ozone related pollutants will improve 18 the air quality simulation models used in California to 19 estimate the benefits of control measures through this air 20 pollution. 21 The new study will improve our understanding of 22 the link between ozone and small particles, two of 23 California's most serious air quality problems. 24 Professor Finlyson-Pitts is an internationally 25 recognized expert in air pollution chemistry and this PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 8 1 project takes advantage of the State of the science 2 equipment funded by UC Irvine and the National Science 3 Foundation. 4 The research committee and ARB staff recommend 5 that the Board approve funding of $200,000 for this 6 project. Thank you and I'd be glad to answer any 7 questions. 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. Any questions 9 from the Board? 10 Anyone signed up to testify? 11 Yes, Mrs. Riordan. 12 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Mr. Chairman, if there's 13 no further discussion, I'd be happy to move resolution 14 01-7 on behalf of the staff recommendation. 15 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Second. 16 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: All in favor say aye? 17 (Ayes.) 18 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Unanimous, thank you. 19 Thank you, Mr. Croes. We didn't keep you waiting 20 this time. 21 Agenda Item 01-2-2. This is the main item on the 22 agenda tonight and what we came here to specifically talk 23 about, the ARB's community health programs and California 24 Phase 3 reformulated gasoline. 25 As some of you may have seen from the exhibits PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 9 1 outside, we have several programs to study and improve air 2 quality in local communities, children's health 3 monitoring, diesel reduction, diesel risk reduction, toxic 4 air pollutant controls and many, many more. 5 We'd like to know what you think about those 6 efforts and whether they're addressing what concerns you 7 in most of your communities. 8 Something that people are still quite concerned 9 about is what goes into making gasoline and how refinery 10 operations might change in the future as the fuel additive 11 MTBE is phased out of gasoline. 12 Because of these concerns, Assemblyman Marco 13 Firebaugh of East Los Angeles, authored a resolution, ACR 14 132, asking the Air Resources Board to hold community 15 meetings on our gas rules, so that the public could know 16 what's happening and how it affects them. 17 Staff is willing to describe that in some detail 18 in just a moment. But, again, I would like to emphasize 19 that our primary objective is not to talk at you this 20 evening but to answer your questions and to hear what you 21 have to stay, so we're going to leave plenty of time for 22 open discussion. 23 If you need to say anything, if you'll sign with 24 the Board Clerk over there, Marie Kavan, it will help us 25 to know how many people want to speak tonight. Also, it PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 10 1 would be very helpful if you could jot down a word or two 2 about your specific concern or question so that we can be 3 most responsive. We'd appreciate that very much. 4 And if, in fact, you do not want to speak, but 5 have a question, you could also write that on a card so, 6 in fact, we can address that question -- address the 7 question from the Board so that, in fact, we make sure 8 that's covered. 9 At this point, I would like to introduce our 10 Executive Officer, Michael Kenny, and Michael is 11 responsible for the day-to-day operations of the Air 12 Resources Board, who will begin staff presentation. 13 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Thank you, Mr. 14 Chairman and members of the Board. For the audience, I am 15 Mike Kenny. I'm the Executive Officer of the Air 16 Resources Board and I also want to take the opportunity to 17 welcome everyone here tonight. 18 We're here to make a short presentation and to 19 hear your questions about air pollution in your community. 20 Basically, what we do at the Air Resources Board is 21 protect public health through the reduction of air 22 pollution. 23 Our goal is very simple to ensure that all 24 Californians can live, work and play in a healthful 25 environment from harmful exposures to air pollution. We PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 11 1 find and recommend solutions for statewide air pollution 2 problems, but we also study how toxic air pollutants can 3 affect the health of individuals in our communities, 4 especially children and the elderly. 5 We know that children and the elderly are more 6 sensitive to these air pollutants. A key element of our 7 plan towards solving California's air pollution problem is 8 our community health program. This broad program 9 encompasses several ongoing projects, as well as new 10 programs developed specifically to address air pollution 11 issues at the community level. 12 The staff presentation this evening will 13 highlight some of our efforts and programs. At this 14 point, I'd like to turn the staff presentation over to Dr. 15 Linda Murchison who will give a short overview of our 16 community and children health programs at the Air 17 Resources Board. 18 This overview will be followed by a presentation 19 by Dean Simeroth on the impacts of the introduction of 20 California's Phase 3 Reformulated Gasoline Program. These 21 presentations are designed to be brief so that we'll have 22 sufficient time to allow plenty of questions and 23 discussion. 24 Linda. 25 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Good evening, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 12 1 Chairman Lloyd and Members of the Board, my name is Randy 2 Pasek and I'm Chief of the Emissions Inventory Branch. 3 Our branch is responsible for clearing out a number of the 4 Air Resources Board community health activities. We also 5 work closely with other staff throughout the Board who are 6 responsible for the broad spectrum of programs which 7 support the ARB's community health program. This includes 8 the Chairman's office and the community health advisor 9 docket. 10 To introduce the ARB's community health program, 11 I'd like to highlight some of the health problems caused 12 by air pollution. 13 (Thereupon an overhead presentation was 14 presented as follows.) 15 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: The ARB and 16 others have been studying air pollution health effects for 17 many years. It is well known that air pollution can 18 increase the number of asthma attacks, cases of bronchitis 19 and hospitalizations. They also increase the risk for 20 cancer and birth defects. 21 Air pollution in particle form is responsible for 22 up to 17,000 premature deaths a year in California. To 23 address the serious health effects of air pollution, the 24 Air Resources Board and the local air districts have 25 adopted many programs to reduce people's exposure to air PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 13 1 pollution. 2 ARB's community health program includes new 3 efforts to identify sources of air pollution at the 4 neighborhood level and to reduce the air pollutant 5 emissions that cause health problems. 6 --o0o-- 7 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASSE: The goal of our 8 community health program is to ensure that all -- 9 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Randy, we're having a bit of 10 difficulty hearing you. 11 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Sorry. The 12 goals of our community health program is to ensure that 13 all individuals in California, especially the children and 14 elderly, can live, work and play in a healthful 15 environment, free from harmful exposures to air pollution. 16 This includes research and other efforts to make sure that 17 we protect the people most vulnerable to air pollution. 18 An important part of our community health program 19 is focused on environmental justice. 20 --o0o-- 21 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: In 1999, the 22 Governor signed Senate Bill 115 authored by Hilda Solis 23 which requires the California Environmental Protection 24 agency, including the ARB, to address the environmental 25 justice concerns as we carry out our programs. We now PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 14 1 have a model statement for all of CalEPA which expresses 2 the principles of environmental justice that will guide 3 our air quality and other environmental programs. 4 Public comments on the statement are welcome. 5 The statement, reads, "To accord the highest respect and 6 value to every individual community, the Cal EPA and its 7 boards, directors and offices shall conduct their public 8 health environmental protection programs, policies and 9 activities in the manner that is designed to promote 10 quality and afford fair treatment, full access and full 11 protection to all Californians including low-income and 12 minority populations. 13 "ARB's community health program was designed from 14 the beginning to address environmental justice concerns, 15 including air toxic emissions in communities." 16 --o0o-- 17 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: So what does 18 ARB's community health program involve? First, we want to 19 find out what air pollutants are present in specific 20 neighborhoods and communities. This may mean special air 21 pollution monitoring or use of computer models to estimate 22 air pollution levels. But most important, we are looking 23 at ways to cut air pollution both now and in the future. 24 As we do this, children are an important focus. 25 Air pollution may have different and long-lasting effects PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 15 1 on children, so they deserve special attention. 2 --o0o-- 3 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: How will we 4 assess people's exposure to air pollution in different 5 communities? We start with monitoring data who have 6 statewide monitors operated by ARB. We are also doing 7 specialized monitoring to look at children's exposure at 8 sites, such as schools, as well as some monitoring studies 9 in individual communities. 10 To get a better picture of people's overall 11 exposure to air pollution in a community, we are adding up 12 exposures from all sources of air pollution. We are in 13 the process of making maps of this cumulative exposure and 14 health risk from air toxics for communities statewide. 15 Outreach is part of this effort. We want to work 16 with communities to make this information easily 17 accessible. It is also important that we ask communities 18 about their concerns and ideas for doing community 19 assessments. 20 --o0o-- 21 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Now, let's talk 22 about some of our major efforts to reduce health risks in 23 California communities. Reducing health risk from toxic 24 diesel particles is a high priority, since they have known 25 cancer risks in air toxics in the State. The risk is high PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 16 1 in all urban areas and our goal is to reduce that risk as 2 quickly as possible. 3 We will also develop environmental justice 4 guidelines by December of this year, which will look at 5 ways to reduce health risk in environmental justice 6 communities. Later this year, the Board will also 7 consider a new clean air plan for all types of air 8 pollution in communities statewide. 9 --o0o-- 10 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Our biggest 11 program to reduce health risk in air toxics is focused on 12 diesel particles. We estimate that 70 percent of the 13 known cancer risk in air toxics in California is due to 14 diesel particles. Key elements of ARB's diesel 15 particulate matter reduction plan are to clean up existing 16 engine emissions by up to 75 percent through engine 17 retrofits, to adopt stringent new engine stands that will 18 reduce diesel particulate matter emissions by over 90 19 percent, and to develop cleaner diesel fuel by lowering 20 sulfur content. 21 We estimate that these efforts should result in a 22 reduction of health risk in diesel particulate matter by 23 75 percent by the year 2010. We expect to see some of 24 these emission reductions within the next year. 25 --o0o-- PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 17 1 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Currently, we're 2 adopting measures for regulations of emissions from 3 garbage trucks and we're looking at other ways to achieve 4 emission reductions in the very near future. 5 --o0o-- 6 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: We are also 7 developing guidelines to address environmental justice 8 issues. One step is to evaluate the overall or cumulative 9 impacts of all air pollutants as individual communities. 10 This is important in order to answer people's questions 11 about potential health risks of air pollution in their 12 communities. 13 We will also work with air districts to identify 14 ways in which ARB and district programs can more 15 effectively address environmental justice concerns. This 16 includes outreach, access to information and all our 17 programs in reducing air pollution. 18 Finally, we will work with local governments to 19 develop approaches to ensure that information on 20 cumulative air pollution impacts is considered in locally 21 managed decision-making processes. 22 --o0o-- 23 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Over the next 24 few months, ARB staff will be involved in an extensive 25 public process to develop our 2001 Clean Air Plan. This PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 18 1 plan will be important to all California communities, 2 because it will identify new ways to reduce air pollution 3 now and in the future. 4 --o0o-- 5 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: It will cover 6 the many different air pollutants of concern throughout 7 the State, from smog to air toxics to particle pollution. 8 The plan will set new goals for reducing emissions, which 9 then reduces people's exposure to unhealthy levels of air 10 pollution. 11 The plan will balance near-term and long-term 12 needs through a combination of actions to be taken over 13 the next several years. This will ensure continued 14 progress in leading our health based standards and 15 reducing air toxic risk while supporting economic growth. 16 --o0o-- 17 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Next, I'd like 18 to highlight some of the ARB's activities specific to 19 children's health. The Children's Environmental Health 20 Program was established by Senate Bill 25 in 1999. An 21 important part of this program is the air monitoring focus 22 on children's exposure to air pollution. 23 Under this program, we will evaluate the best way 24 to monitor, so that we understand what children are 25 exposed to in the outside air. We will also use some PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 19 1 indoor monitoring as well. 2 Over the next year, a special children's health 3 monitor will be done in six different communities in 4 schools, day care centers, and children's recreational 5 facilities. We will also reveal health based air quality 6 standards to determine if they adequately protect the 7 health of children and infants. 8 Standards will be revised if they are found 9 deficient and new air toxic controls will be adopted as 10 necessary to protect children's health. 11 Finally, we have active research programs to 12 improve our understanding of the health effects of air 13 pollution. 14 --o0o-- 15 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: For example -- 16 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Chew on it. 17 (Laughter.) 18 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: I'm learning. 19 For example, ARB's children asthma studies focus on how 20 air pollution exposures impact the progress and severity 21 of asthma in children. 22 Also, the ARB children's health study is 23 assessing the health effects of long-term exposure of 24 children to southern California's mix of air pollutants. 25 The studies find that air pollution reduces the growth and PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 20 1 function of a children's lungs. 2 --o0o-- 3 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Let me conclude 4 by saying that about 90 percent of Californians at times 5 breathe unhealthy air. And the health risk associated 6 with air toxics is unacceptably high in spite of the 7 significant progress that we have made over the last 20 8 years. 9 Further actions are needed to achieve clean air 10 and a healthy environment to all Californians. As an 11 organization, ARB will continue to focus on children and 12 communities at risk, including environmental justice 13 communities. 14 This concludes my presentation. We'd be happy to 15 answer any questions about the presentation at this time. 16 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. 17 Questions from the Board? 18 Yes, Professor Friedman. 19 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: You lost me on the 20 first point. I'm wondering what the source of the 21 statement that 90 percent of Californians breathe 22 unhealthy air. Do we do that all the time or just some of 23 the time and what -- that wasn't -- I don't think, unless 24 I missed it, that wasn't in any part of the earlier 25 presentation, and yet it's part of the summary. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 21 1 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: It's not at all 2 times. 3 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: I'm sorry? 4 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: It's at times -- 5 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: I'm having trouble 6 hearing you. I don't know if anyone else is. But if you 7 would please speak out and speak distinctly, I would 8 appreciate it. 9 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: You asked if 10 Californians breathe -- 90 percent breathe unhealthy air 11 all the time. And it's only at times they're exposed to 12 unhealthy levels of air. 13 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Ten percent of the 14 population never, ever breathes unhealthy air? 15 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: I suppose I 16 should say a hundred percent. 17 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: I'm just curious, I 18 mean I know we know there's a problem. I'm wondering why 19 you quantified it that way. 20 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: If I could help, 21 Professor Friedman. What we're trying to do with the 90 22 percent statistic is essentially reflect what's happening 23 with our end-of-year statistics in the State of 24 California. 25 And as we look at, for example, the Los Angeles PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 22 1 basin -- excuse me, the Los Angeles basin, the Sacramento 2 area, the San Joaquin Valley, all of those areas are 3 nonattainment for the criteria pollutant in ozone. And so 4 the consequences of that is that people are breathing 5 unhealthy air when they live in those particular portions 6 of the State. 7 When we look at places, for example, like 8 northern California, up around Eureka and parts of Lake 9 County or some of the rural areas further north, and those 10 areas are generally in attainment for a lot of pollutants 11 and most of those areas are in attainment for ozone, and 12 so consequently, the air is healthier in those areas. 13 What we're striving to achieve are reductions in 14 the emissions that formulate ozones that, in fact, we can 15 give a hundred percent of the population, a hundred 16 percent of the time breathing healthy air. 17 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: I appreciate that. 18 So, basically, you're talking about attainment and 19 nonattainment? 20 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Right. 21 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Ms. D'Adamo. 22 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: No. 23 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Dr. Burke. 24 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Do we have to turn these on 25 somehow. Testing. Yep. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 23 1 Are you familiar with our MAIT 4 studies, I 2 assume? 3 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Yes. 4 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: As you may or may not be 5 aware, when you reference in your presentation the testing 6 areas for the air pollution sample, how was the pattern 7 for that study done? 8 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: I'm not sure 9 which study, the MAIT study or -- 10 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: No. We've done studies 11 across the State to understand what the effects of 12 pollution are in the environmental justice area. So I 13 don't understand what that means, where that's at and how 14 you set it up? 15 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Well, we are -- 16 we have a study in San Diego started over a year ago, 17 looking at -- is the question you're asking the studies 18 or -- 19 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: If you're saying that you've 20 studied the state, I assume you've studied the entire 21 State? 22 EMISSION INVENTORY CHIEF PASEK: Well, again, I 23 think we studied the State from the criteria pollutant 24 point of view. I think we are now just starting to get 25 into studying down at the community level and San Diego PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 24 1 was the start of that program, and we will continue to go 2 further than that, but -- 3 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: I want to state last month I 4 got off on a tangent and I don't want to go back there, 5 but -- 6 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Dr. Prasad, did you want to 7 go after that? 8 COMMUNITY HEALTH ADVISOR PRASAD: Yes. 9 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Dr. Prasad, good to see you. 10 COMMUNITY HEALTH ADVISOR PRASAD. My name is Dr. 11 Shankar Prasad. The way in which we are going about in 12 enlisting this issue at the ARB is that we are taking 13 advantage of the children's initiative a bit, which 14 requires us to monitor at schools and compare the adequacy 15 of air quality monitoring for the exposures to that 16 population. 17 We are extending that to some environmental 18 justice neighborhoods by taking tours in northern 19 California and in southern California with various 20 organizations and locate those monitors in the -- by 21 locating those in Wilmington, and other areas like Orland. 22 So that's how we are looking at that aspect of where is 23 the concentration of facilities. And we generally know 24 that the exact socioeconomic factors have relatively lower 25 air. That's the way we are looking at that issue. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 25 1 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: I don't want to belabor 2 this, because I understand it. I just wanted to share 3 with my colleagues the experience we had at South Coast 4 when we decided to do MAIT 2. We wanted to do it in the 5 most scientific way that we possibly could, so we brought 6 in all these scientists and they studied patterns and 7 rainfall and topography and all the things that go with 8 the carrying of pollution and circumstances. 9 And, quite frankly, I was ready to approve the 10 entire MAIT study at that point, because I thought on a 11 scientific basis it was outstanding scientific work. And 12 then it began to be challenged by Senator Alarcon who was 13 Councilman Allicot, as to, one, the emissions created by 14 certain pockets of industrial pollution, which is normally 15 found in environmentally challenged neighborhoods and our 16 monitoring stations were setup as to wind patterns and 17 things of that type. 18 And the other was that the -- you were there and 19 I remember you being there when all this was going on. 20 And the other was the cumulative effect. Now, then 21 Councilwoman and now Senator Nell Soto's statement was 22 most on point when she said that she believes her husband 23 died because they were so poor all their life that they 24 had to live in areas where there was excessive pollution. 25 And she said that one of her great concerns was that her PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 26 1 children as they were coming up were exposed to that. So 2 now she watches them every day and you already heard her 3 husband died of cancer. 4 So the cumulative issue became a real issue. And 5 it's a really difficult issue to deal with because some 6 argue it has merit, some argue that it doesn't have merit, 7 but for the environmentally challenged, they also feel it 8 has merit and I happen to agree with them, I feel that as 9 well. 10 So as we continue to go on in our studies, all 11 I'm urging is that we take into account that wind 12 conditions, topography and pollution sources are not 13 necessarily the sole measures of an at-risk study for 14 environmentally challenged people. And I think that's 15 very important. And I didn't hear that being addressed in 16 the early part. 17 COMMUNITY HEALTH ADVISOR PRASAD: In fact, the 18 South Coast is a partner in this siting of locations. And 19 we are actually improvising some of the things that are -- 20 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: I know that. 21 Thank you very much. 22 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I think also one of the 23 issues there was MAIT 2, you're monitoring over a more 24 limited period of time. So the capability of actually 25 capturing some of the, maybe, high intensive periods would PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 27 1 be maybe more limited than doing this over a longer period 2 of time. 3 Mr. McKinnon. 4 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Yeah. I'd just like to 5 add kind of as fodder as the community begins to discuss 6 the subject with us is that all of which Dr. Burke 7 included is factors and the only thing I would also add is 8 that where there's a meeting between residential and 9 industrial, there's also the added factor of truck traffic 10 and diesel emissions. 11 And so where there's an airport, a port or 12 industrial activity, that's something that we have to 13 think about as one of the factors. And I think Dr. Prasad 14 has been working on modeling that pulls those factors 15 together, stationary mobile and also attempts to work with 16 the children's health study that's studying respiratory 17 problems caused by air pollution. 18 So as a union worker for years in industrial 19 sites, I'm really, really, really pleased to see this 20 developing. And I'm even more pleased to be following the 21 leadership of our Governor and Senator Hilda Solis -- now 22 our Congresswoman Hilda Solis, in making sure that 23 government meets with the community to talk about this 24 important issue and meets with working communities and 25 communities of color at a time of day when it's important PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 28 1 to do it. 2 So thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Yeah. Professor Friedman. 4 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: I just had another 5 question for Dr. Prasad. In your monitoring and the 6 studies that are being done for us and for the people of 7 the State on the emissions and pollution, and particularly 8 these pockets, are you able to model the cumulative effect 9 in response to Dr. Burke's concerns and all of our 10 concerns? 11 COMMUNITY HEALTH ADVISOR PRASAD: That's our 12 end -- 13 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: You can extrapolate 14 from the current and then extend out? 15 COMMUNITY HEALTH ADVISOR PRASAD: First of all, 16 I'd like to make sure that I'm actually in an advisory 17 role to the Board. And so the actual work is being 18 carried out by Linda Murchison and Randy Pasek. And in 19 this effort, the focus is on community impacts and MATES 20 II, for example, historically the community impacts value 21 have been focused on the cancer effects. 22 We are trying to go a step beyond, because though 23 the cancer is a major factor in both regulating and 24 developing conditions and so on, the complaints are mostly 25 of the accurate nature, so we are trying to see if the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 29 1 monitoring modeling way or anything can we make the next 2 leap of looking at that short-term peak exposure as well, 3 in addition to the cumulative cancer risks. 4 But that said, how far we will succeed in the 5 model research first which are needed to improvise in 6 terms of the cumulative exposures? 7 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Yeah. I've been impressed 9 with the staff that Lynn has working on this, Bob Fletcher 10 in advising and monitoring as well. We're trying to bring 11 all the resources together in the right way as planning of 12 this to the assessment, to the measurement, to the siting, 13 to the modeling. There are many models out there, but 14 these types of exposures we have maybe impacted from 15 sources near -- from people living near to sources. 16 Our models are not very good at being able to 17 characterize that near source exposure, and then we couple 18 that with the cumulative impacts. But I want to again, 19 assure the Board, I think we've really got an excellent 20 team working to pull all this together, the emissions 21 inventory out there. And so I think we're making headway 22 but we've got a long way to go. 23 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Mr. Chairman. 24 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Yes, Dr. Burke. 25 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: I know this is a scientific PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 30 1 study, but I don't even know if it's appropriate, and if 2 it's not, it's not. But if in our outreach program I 3 think not only do we need to go to the community leaders, 4 but also we need to go to the community representatives, 5 because sometimes they receive complaints and information 6 that we don't. And I think that the concern that was 7 expressed last year was to the tune of they wanted to 8 communicate more with us and us to communicate more with 9 them. 10 And I know that we've been hesitant about doing 11 that, because we're going to politicize the process, but 12 this is an information seeking process. And if they'd 13 help us in this modeling, I think we would be appropriate 14 to chat with them. 15 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: My understanding is that 16 that's ongoing as we go into the community, that we spend 17 quite a bit of time here. But it's a very good point, we 18 can't do enough of that, that's true. 19 We have another presentation on the, I think, on 20 the next phase on the clean gasoline. 21 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: Good evening. For 22 the record, my name is Steve Brisby. I'm the Manager of 23 the Fuel Section. 24 Once again for the record, my name is Steve 25 Brisby. I'm the Manager of the Fuel Section with the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 31 1 Stationary Source Division. 2 (Thereupon an overhead presentation was 3 presented as follows.) 4 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: Good evening, Mr. 5 Chairman, and members of the Board. This evening I will 6 present information regarding the California Cleaner 7 Burning Gasoline Program. 8 --o0o-- 9 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: I will discuss the 10 following topics, the history of California's gasoline 11 control program, the Governor's Executive Order regarding 12 MTBE, and California's latest cleaner burning gasoline 13 regulations to implement the Governor's Executive Order. 14 --o0o-- 15 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: As you can see from 16 this slide, the Board has a long history of regulating 17 gasoline properties to reduce motor vehicle emissions. 18 Over the years, there has been only seven major California 19 programs that set increasingly sophisticated 20 specifications for gasoline. 21 --o0o-- 22 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: California's 23 cleaner burning gasoline program is one of the most 24 significant emission reduction measures ever undertaken in 25 California. It has greatly reduced both smog forming and PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 32 1 toxic emission. The introduction of the cleaner burning 2 gasoline resulted in a reduction of emissions equivalent 3 to removing 3.5 million vehicles from California roads. 4 It has reduced smog forming emissions by about 5 300 tons per day, cut Benzene emissions in half and has 6 reduced the cancer potential risk from vehicle emissions 7 by about 40 percent. 8 --o0o-- 9 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: The cleaner burning 10 gasoline program provides significant emission benefits 11 from both older and newer cars. The program provides air 12 quality benefits by reducing both the exhaust emissions 13 and the emissions resulting from the evaporation of 14 gasoline. 15 Benzene is a toxic air contaminant. Lowering the 16 Benzene content in the gasoline means that there will be 17 less Benzene to evaporate and lower vehicle exhaust 18 emissions of Benzene. 19 It should be noted that the air quality benefits 20 of cleaner burning gasoline program does not depend on or 21 require the use of MTBE. 22 --o0o-- 23 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: The federal Clean 24 Air Act requires the use of oxygenates such as MTBE or 25 ethanol in federal reformulated gasoline. Today, about 70 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 33 1 percent of the gasoline sold in California is subject to 2 this requirement. Based on its economics and blending 3 characteristics, MTBE became the oxygenated choice for 4 most refiners to meet the federal requirements. 5 --o0o-- 6 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: California's rules 7 are more flexible. California regulations for cleaner 8 burning gasoline do not require the use of oxygenates as 9 long as the emission benefits are preserved. Today, in 10 the San Francisco Bay Area, which is not subject to the 11 federal oxygenate requirement, a significant quantity of 12 nonoxygenated gasoline is being produced and sold. 13 --o0o-- 14 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: Based on 15 independent University of California studies on MTBE, and 16 on testimony at public meetings, Governor Davis found that 17 MTBE presents a threat to groundwater, surface water and 18 drinking water supplies. Governor Davis also found that 19 MTBE is not needed to produce cleaner burning gasoline. 20 As a result, Governor Davis directed that the use of MTBE 21 be phased out from California gasoline no later than 22 December 31st, 2002. 23 --o0o-- 24 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: The California 25 Energy Commission in consultation with staff of the Air PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 34 1 Resources Board found that to maintain the supply and 2 availability of gasoline in California, the earliest that 3 MTBE could be phased out was December 31st, 2002. 4 On December 9th, 1999, the Air Resources Board 5 amended California's gasoline regulations to phase out the 6 use of MTBE by December 31st, 2002. 7 --o0o-- 8 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: The amendments as 9 adopted by the Air Resources Board preserved the benefits 10 of the current program and provide additional flexibility 11 in lowering or removing MTBE from gasoline. The 12 amendments also provide some modest additional reductions 13 of oxides of nitrogen and potency weighted toxics. 14 --o0o-- 15 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: The gasoline 16 amendments were reviewed by the California Environmental 17 Policy Council. They found that there would be no 18 significant adverse impacts on public health or the 19 environment, including any impacts on air, water or soil 20 that is likely to result in the change in motor vehicle 21 gasoline expected to be produced in the future. 22 --o0o-- 23 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: The Bay Area Air 24 Quality Management District has indicated to us that 25 permit conditions will not allow any increase in emissions PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 35 1 from changes at the refineries. Most refineries have 2 notified us that to produce gasoline without MTBE, they 3 are planning fewer refinery changes. 4 We are working with both refiners and the local 5 districts to ensure that local emission increases 6 associated with the expected small increase in truck 7 traffic to transport ethanol are offset. 8 --o0o-- 9 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: When the amendments 10 take effect, future gasoline will be similar to today's 11 gas blend. The few expected differences are MTBE will no 12 longer be used, the use of ethanol will increase, and 13 gasoline will have less Benzene than sulfur than found in 14 today's gasoline. 15 This concludes my presentation. 16 Thank you. 17 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. 18 Professor Friedman. 19 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: You just commented 20 that you're working with the refiners and the local 21 districts, that would be, I guess, in this case, the Bay 22 Area district, to mitigate local emission increases from 23 the small -- what was predicted to be the relatively small 24 increase in truck traffic, I guess, bringing in the 25 ethanol. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 36 1 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: Yes. 2 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Could you indicate, 3 at this point, what are some of the mitigation measures 4 that we explored or what do you have in mind. The trucks 5 are going to come through and they're going to emit, so 6 how do does that get mitigated? 7 FUEL SECTION MANAGER BRISBY: We're digging out 8 that recent information. 9 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: This is -- 10 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 11 CHIEF SIMEROTH: For the record, this is Dean Simeroth. 12 I'm with the Air Resources Board and Chief of the Criteria 13 Pollutants Branch. Some of the things that we're looking 14 at, and in talking to the refiners and local districts, is 15 putting retrofit control devices on diesel trucks that 16 would be used to transport, using alternative clean fuels 17 for those trucks, and that type of technology, relatively 18 straightforward. 19 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you. 20 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Ms. D'Adamo and then 21 Supervisor DeSaulnier. 22 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: The work that you're doing 23 with the refiners in the Bay Area, is that something that 24 is just the informal arrangement that ARB has? And if so, 25 what steps is ARB taking with regard to other similar PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 37 1 issues throughout the State, for example, biomass 2 production facilities, landfill sites? 3 I know there's also an issue regarding tire 4 disposal and waste to energy sites in California. Is ARB 5 involved with local air districts on those other issues as 6 well? 7 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 8 CHIEF SIMEROTH: I can basically speak for the refining 9 projects. In addition to working with the refiners, we 10 also work with the permitting agencies, for the Bay Area, 11 that's Contra Costa County, City of Benicia, City of 12 Richmond, City of Rodeo, Bay Area Air Quality Management 13 District. And over the years, we've dealt with -- we've 14 had a fairly good working relationship with them. 15 We review and comment on the draft permit 16 conditions, the draft CEQA documents. In this case, 17 there's not going to be very many from the Bay Area. 18 We've had a similar relationship with the South Coast Air 19 Quality Management District and their staff. 20 I know from my interactions with my sister -- my 21 fellow branch chiefs, similar types things are happening 22 on the other projects. We'll try to have an active 23 participation with the local permitting authorities. 24 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Would retrofit devices 25 actually be a condition of the refiner's permit? And if PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 38 1 so, since they already have permits, would these changes 2 require a change in their permit? I guess, what I'm 3 looking for is what is the hook? 4 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 5 CHIEF SIMEROTH: The hook? 6 Actually, in this case, I think we're a little 7 bit farther along in southern California than we are in 8 the Bay Area. The hook would be the permit conditions 9 would be changed. In some cases, such as British 10 Petroleum, they're sort of stepping up and they're going 11 to voluntarily say we're going to retrofit our trucks. 12 And that would be part of the conditions for them to get 13 the necessary permits. 14 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: If I could add one 15 additional thing to that. One of the things that we are 16 taking under consideration, essentially, as part of the 17 diesel risk management program that the Board approved in 18 September, we are looking at visualizing that program in 19 trying to minimize the particulate emissions from these 20 trucks, by putting retrofit traps on the trucks and 21 specifically looking at, for example, cargo haulers. 22 And one of the things that we are considering 23 doing is bringing a specific regulatory proposal to you 24 and having you consider -- in the application of that 25 particular requirement to all cargo haulers in the State. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 39 1 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: One more follow-up 2 question. What if the refiner doesn't own the trucks, if 3 they contract out with another company that's bringing -- 4 I would imagine in most instances, in fact, refiners 5 themselves wouldn't actually own the trucks. 6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: If I could maybe 7 interject. It does turn out that at least in some of the 8 preliminary work we have done, the majority of trucks are 9 not actually owned by the refineries. And so one of our 10 original thoughts was to actually bring this particular 11 proposal to you sooner. 12 But as we've looked at this, we've found that 13 there are private companies which actually own larger 14 numbers of those trucks and that is why it is taken a 15 little bit longer for us to bring the particular proposal 16 to you, because the private contracts are actually fairly 17 substantial in size. 18 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I think we've also been 19 alerted that by the California Trucking Association that 20 in this particular area it may be more complicated and we 21 should tread softly. 22 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: It gets more complex as you 23 get into it, because these leasing companies that deliver 24 for refineries have interstate contracts and are bringing 25 in from other states. Can you regulate the other State? PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 40 1 For the refinery, though, it's kind of 2 interesting. What we're doing is we're reducing their 3 number of credits over a time period. Therefore, they 4 have to go back or buy credits. So it's cheaper for them 5 to go to the best available technology than it is to buy 6 credits, especially now. 7 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Yes, Supervisor DeSaulnier. 8 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Do we have numbers, for 9 instance, in the Bay Area of how many more trucks we'll 10 have making these deliveries, a small amount wasn't very 11 definitive. 12 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 13 CHIEF SIMEROTH: It's in the neighborhood of about 200 14 additional truck trips a day. And I can look up the more 15 precise number. 16 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: I'll ask one for Dr. 17 Burke, what would it be for South Coast? 18 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 19 CHIEF SIMEROTH: It will actually be slightly lower than 20 South Coast. If you look at where the terminals are 21 located in relationship to where we think the ethanol 22 terminal is, the ethanol terminal is farther away from the 23 San Jose gasoline terminal than the Colton terminal is 24 from where their corresponding site in South Coast would 25 be. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 41 1 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: So in the Bay Area, 2 where would those 200 trips be taking place? 3 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 4 CHIEF SIMEROTH: It probably would be coming out of the 5 Shelby terminal and going down to gasoline terminals in 6 Brisbane and San Jose, if you're coming out to the 7 Sacramento valley for the terminals out there in 8 Sacramento and Chico and Fresno, or excuse me, Sacramento 9 and Chico. The San Joaquin Valley would probably get 10 there's from Stockton and it would be probably either rail 11 or -- probably rail delivery in Stockton from the Shelby 12 terminal. 13 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: What would happen if 14 the federal government gave us a waiver in terms of these 15 truck trips? 16 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 17 CHIEF SIMEROTH: They would go down -- there would 18 probably be some less ethanol used. Ethanol would not go 19 away. We'd still use a considerable amount in the state, 20 but certainly they'll be reduced. 21 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: And sort of along the 22 lines that Dr. Burke was saying in the community like 23 this, it's the aggregate. If 200 trips is not 24 insignificant, particularly what you get for this kind of 25 county, where we have the largest amount of hazardous PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 42 1 material sites per capita measured by density in the State 2 of California only second to Los Angeles county, but in 3 terms of per capita in density. So we already have a lot 4 of these truck trips. 5 And I think that's what the concern is that it 6 may not be much considering this one particular 7 regulation, but when you add everything else that's going 8 on, it's the aggregate that's adding to it, as you say, 9 environmentally disadvantaged communities like Richmond. 10 So I don't know how we start to look into that, but I 11 think it's extremely important. 12 And then the second part I'm somewhat concerned 13 about is in terms of supply, when Reformulated 3 comes on 14 line, we can anticipate that in that summer, in 15 particular, we're going to have some potential constraints 16 of supply that we already have, but it could get worse. 17 So, for instance, in this county when we had the 18 fatalities and the explosion and the shut down at Tosco 19 over in Martinez and then we had a subsequent explosion 20 here in Chevron, and then Chevron went to our staff and 21 asked for a variance, there's got to be someway, and we 22 can't anticipate it instinctively, intuitively but we have 23 to sort of consider that, particularly for communities 24 around refineries, because the pressure will be not just 25 these added trips, but the prospect of the refineries PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 43 1 coming in and asking for variances or the Legislature 2 writing a law that will allow them for that. I wonder how 3 that would impact these communities. 4 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 5 CHIEF SIMEROTH: I think the variance that you mentioned 6 in terms of Chevron and the never-exercise type of 7 variance, so there's no emission impact, various 8 conditions have been exercised that would have required a 9 mitigating issue be paid that would then been used to 10 purchase offsets to sort of get back some benefits to the 11 State, to the public. 12 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: My concern is about the 13 particular communities that are affected by the stationary 14 sources and how they're being impacted by that. So if 15 there's a way we can anticipate that and make sure that 16 communities like Richmond would get the benefit of any 17 kind of tradeoff proportionate to what might have to be 18 put up with, I think it would be of interest to me. 19 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 20 CHIEF SIMEROTH: I think -- well, certainly we'll try to 21 focus on that in the future more than we have in the past. 22 There's some potential there. 23 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Okay. 24 Thank you, Mr. Chairman. 25 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: I might add a little PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 44 1 bit in response to Supervisor DeSaulnier. There are, I 2 think, two things that actually maybe need a little bit 3 more discussion. And those were essentially looking at 4 variances in the future. And if, in fact, variances do 5 become a necessity, there have been, in the past, at 6 least, different conditions which have been applied to the 7 variances. 8 And one of those conditions could essentially be 9 mitigation in the immediate communities as one way of 10 trying to address things. And so there is, at least, that 11 opportunity. 12 The other thing, I'd actually also like to 13 highlight is that it looks like right now that without an 14 oxygenated waiver, we will be using in excess of 500 15 million gallons of ethanol per year. It looks like if we 16 had a waiver, we would be using somewhere around 180 17 million gallons of ethanol per year. 18 And so as you look at the amount of truck 19 traffic, there is at least probably a reasonable case that 20 could be made that the ethanol volume in truck traffic are 21 somewhat linear. And so we're looking at really a factor 22 of a three difference between what amount of ethanol we're 23 using with as without a waiver. 24 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Just one last thought. 25 I hope we pursue this relationship to mitigate the local PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 45 1 communities that are environmentally disadvantaged as Dr. 2 Burke suggests. And it's at least proportionate, the risk 3 they take. 4 But the last thing that gives me concern is 5 what's happening in this county is when supply is 6 constrained either by an incident or shut down, it creates 7 more pressure on the communities of people who work in the 8 refineries, but also the people who live on the fence 9 lines, because there's greater pressure to supply more 10 gasoline for profit and for other reasons. And I think we 11 have to think about that for these communities. 12 Personally, just instinctively, again, I think 13 that what's happened at Chevron was that when the Tosco 14 plant went down, and I forget how many barrels of gasoline 15 they were producing, when that went down, there was a rush 16 to increase capacity at other refiners. And there was a 17 cost for that for the people who lived in the communities 18 and the people who worked there. And somehow to be able 19 to, at least, start to address that, I think, is important 20 for us. 21 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 22 CHIEF SIMEROTH: Supervisor, if I could ask one additional 23 thing, the variance we issued is for the fuel quality not 24 for the operations after refineries themselves, so our 25 variances would not result in any increases on the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 46 1 refinery proper? 2 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: But it's really all value. 3 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Yeah. In terms of our 4 regulatory authority, I agree with that, but understanding 5 that it's always entwined and we have to be sensitive to 6 these things. That's the purpose we're having these 7 meetings. 8 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 9 CHIEF SIMEROTH: Certainly. 10 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Mr. McKinnon. 11 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: I have two questions. 12 The first one is kind of fundamental that got us here and 13 that is we found out that MTBE had terrible effects in 14 groundwater. Can you tell us what ethanol will do in 15 groundwater? 16 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 17 CHIEF SIMEROTH: Basically, the Water Resources Control 18 Board has looked at the water issue. The Environmental 19 Policy Council actually asked them to not only stop what 20 they did when we made the report in January of 2000, but 21 to fund some additional research into this. 22 It contracted to Lawrence-Livermore Laboratory. 23 There is a workshop on their findings this April. I'm not 24 a water expert. I couldn't tell you that, but it hasn't 25 stopped. It simply looked that ethanol is more soluble PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 47 1 but it is also biodegradable, which is one of the problems 2 MTBE had, that it's not biodegradable. 3 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Okay. 4 BOARD MEMBER CALHOUN: May I follow up on that 5 question? 6 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Yes, follow it up, because 7 I've got some more questions. 8 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: I have another question, 9 but it's not related to that. It's not related. 10 BOARD MEMBER CALHOUN: One of the slides you put 11 up, Dean, said there would be an increase in the use of 12 ethanol. And Matt just asked about the impact ethanol 13 would have on the groundwater. What about the volatility 14 of it, how are we going to get around that? 15 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 16 CHIEF SIMEROTH: The refiners will have to make 17 adjustments to how they make gasoline to allow ethanol to 18 be used without the increase in volatility. In the 19 summertime, the reality is is that pentanes, that's a five 20 carbon hydrocarbon will have to be subjected for the data 21 to be used so that it can used in MTBE. 22 So we'll be doing something with hydrocarbon 23 components in the future. We don't have to today. And 24 that's being looked at as part of the permitting process 25 like this to make sure that that doesn't add something PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 48 1 unexpected. 2 We're adjusting gasoline to accommodate that. 3 BOARD MEMBER CALHOUN: So this is something that 4 I assume we will follow through on? 5 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 6 CHIEF SIMEROTH: Oh, yes. We're watching this very 7 closely, because it's of importance to us as well, the 8 volume impact that's available. 9 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Mr. McKinnon. 10 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: A different subject, 11 sulfur. A little over a year ago, I think you gave me my 12 refinery education. And I met with folks in a refinery in 13 southern California and met with some of the refiners. 14 And, at the time, we were talking about the quantity of 15 sulfur in the fuel, and it seemed to me that there was a 16 linkage that if we could convince them to take the sulfur 17 out in the front end of the process, we could encourage 18 them to not only lower sulfur in gasoline, but begin to 19 make low sulfur diesel, so that we could begin putting 20 particle traps on trucks and kind of move towards cleaning 21 things up. 22 How is that working out? 23 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 24 CHIEF SIMEROTH: Actually, it's working out fairly well. 25 I can't talk to details, because it was all confidential PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 49 1 conversation with refiners. It looks like the average 2 sulfur and gasoline will be substantially less than 3 today's average is a little over 20. At least one refiner 4 is already moving to switch their diesel production to low 5 sulfur in addition to the people that have already been 6 doing it. So it's very positive information getting on 7 that. 8 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Thank you. 9 BOARD MEMBER CALHOUN: Maybe they can't see the 10 handwriting on the wall though. 11 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 12 CHIEF SIMEROTH: We tried to make it pretty clear. 13 (Laughter.) 14 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Mrs. Riordan. 15 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Mr. Chairman, just as a 16 point of reference for the audience, when you exit this 17 room, there's a wonderful display with the retrofit 18 device. And some of our staff are there to show you how 19 it works. And under the right circumstances, it appears 20 that they will be very successful in doing a great deal to 21 eliminate the pollution from those trucks when they are 22 retrofitted, which leads me to say, and I'll ask the staff 23 if we believe that these are as good as we think they are? 24 I'm not sure I quite understand why, other than money, 25 cost, that a trucker would not want to put this on and a PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 50 1 refinery would not want to encourage those who are 2 delivering to them that this be done. 3 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: One word answer, it's a fuel 4 penalty. 5 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Okay. That's your 6 response. Mr. Kenny, what's yours. 7 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Actually, we haven't 8 talked with some of the manufacturers of the devices, but 9 the fuel penalty issue is one that does come. It often 10 comes up from the users of the trucks. The manufacturers 11 of the devices actually say that the fuel penalty is 12 there, but it actually may be extremely small to the point 13 where it's less than one percent. 14 And which point, I think it will not be an 15 impediment. The biggest impediment right now, I think, 16 more seriously is that we do not have traps that have been 17 demonstrated to be durable over a long period of time. 18 And so what we are doing is we are on an expedited track 19 to essentially establish that durability of the traps over 20 a long period of time, so that, in fact, we can certify 21 them in the next six weeks. 22 To track that we're looking at what is going to 23 result, hopefully, in a verification of certification of 24 the first trap. And then we will be able to begin putting 25 those traps on, for example, the transit buses. We can PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 51 1 start moving on school buses, and then we can also go to 2 some of the other regulations that we have, in which, we 3 move toward both low-sulfur diesel fuel usage and 4 installation of traps. 5 But, again, it's going to be a money issue, I 6 think, more than anything in the end, just the cost. 7 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Dr. Burke. 9 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Can you let us know what 10 company is in the lead of this fuel trap thing, because a 11 number of people have asked me. Well, let me give you one 12 story. If traps seem to be the answer, a few minutes ago, 13 you know, but because of certain demise of what was our 14 leading fuel trap technology company, and we don't know 15 what's going to happen to that company, and the other 16 major manufacturers who are financially viable, their 17 trap's technology was not as good as the leading fuel trap 18 technology company, it's kind of made that whole murky -- 19 that whole picture murky to me. Can you tell us who's 20 going to get certified for durability? 21 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Actually, I can't say 22 at this point, because I don't know. What we're trying to 23 do is we're working with actually a number of the trap 24 manufacturers in trying to run them all through the 25 process to see who actually can pass the durability test. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 52 1 And, I think, if I go back and talk with some of the staff 2 I could probably give you a more precise answer, but right 3 now I just -- 4 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: What the Board Members also 5 need to understand is there's a marketing philosophical 6 difference in trap manufacturers. You see, because some 7 trap manufacturers only want to sell to new car people, 8 which is great, and, you know, new trucks, new cars, 9 that's great. But what we're kind of looking for, I 10 assume, as a board, is something that would go in new cars 11 and something that will go on that old school bus, that 12 it's running out there, you know, that we want to go on 13 with. 14 So that is, you know, even though you have a fuel 15 trap, and even though it's certified and even though it 16 has longevity, you don't know, currently, what the 17 marketing philosophy is of those companies. 18 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: I think the one thing 19 we're looking at in trying to essentially, you know, 20 exploit that, it looks like that the on-road opportunities 21 are probably easier opportunities at least initially. And 22 the main reason for that is that a lot of the on-road 23 applications, for example, with trucks are probably more 24 amenable to the installation of traps and they're 25 probably -- their operation is also more amenable to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 53 1 getting particulate reduction. 2 Where we are going to probably have a little bit 3 more difficulty and require a little bit more time is in 4 the off-road sectors. You know, what we're seeing, 5 essentially, is a wide variety of applications. And the 6 consequence of that is that we need to ensure that the 7 traps are tailored to those applications so that, in fact, 8 they are most efficient. 9 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: One comment, one question, 10 sir, I'll be through. 11 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: And I have a follow-up to 12 respond to that as well. 13 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Okay. What concerns me is 14 that from west coast -- South Coast, I'm moving -- from 15 the South Coast perspective, the fuel trap we felt from 16 our limited testing was the best is in a financially 17 precarious position and Dow Chemical is prepared to take 18 over them in June. And Dow Chemical has told us that 19 they're not even going to even think about retrofiting 20 anything with them, because if they take over the 21 intellectual properties, they're only going to do it on 22 the new vehicles. So that has real concern to South 23 Coast. 24 My question is, here we are running into a real 25 phenomenon in the South Coast, but I don't know if it's PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 54 1 creeping north or not, because I don't know enough about 2 distribution or transportation to really be an expert on 3 it or even a qualified person to talk about it. 4 But in Riverside and San Bernardino all of a 5 sudden we looked up one day and we had just thousands of 6 trucks coming in to distribution centers, these 7 warehouses, and -- now, when they started, everybody out 8 there was really glad to see them, because of new jobs, 9 you know, money into the community, new tax base and all 10 this stuff. So when it was one, it was okay. When it was 11 two it was okay. When it was five, it was well, wait a 12 minute what's going on. They got 10, 20, 30. And now, 13 you know, all the community members are coming in saying, 14 man, these trucks are killing us. 15 These trucks come in. They unload. They plow 16 out of here. And if this is a trend that's moving around 17 our State, I think in this matrix of sensitivity to 18 cumulative exposure to people in the neighborhoods, we 19 need to get kind of a handle on that to see if, in fact, 20 it is moving around the State. 21 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Well, yeah. I think that's 22 an interesting issue, Dr. Burke. I think clearly when we 23 have this hearing down in your -- down in South Coast, 24 also, I think we should address that some more. I find 25 that very interesting, because clearly what you've been PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 55 1 trying to do there, I would say, trying to discourage 2 that, and yet not getting the message across. 3 But the one thing I would like to get back on is 4 the trap issue that I have talked to some of the people on 5 that. And you said the marketing philosophy, I would turn 6 that around and I'd stay it's different. I think some of 7 the people are trying to be honest in their claims, and 8 that they're not pretending that you've got a trap to fit 9 every purpose. And they're very cautious because, in 10 fact, their commitment. And I think what our staff is 11 looking at as well in terms of the certification to make 12 sure that what the claim of the application is actually 13 lived up to and you get some of the -- larger companies, I 14 know, GM and Englehart, they're very concerned if they say 15 this is going to work on certain applications, but it 16 doesn't, they're going to be liable. 17 Whereas, maybe some of the more inexperienced 18 companies may beat some of those larger ones. So I think 19 what I've seen on that, clearly there's a bias towards the 20 newer energy, but not the newest. But they also have 21 limitations that they could go further back. You have oil 22 burners and whatnot. Those traps don't stand up. I think 23 they're realizing that as well. 24 So I think one of the great things I think that's 25 coming out of the work that Mike has done under the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 56 1 international diesel retrofit committee, is actually 2 highlighting a lot of these issues, because what we found 3 out is that this is a very, very complex issue, just as 4 you were saying. 5 But I would like to move on, if I could, as to 6 more questions, because I think I would like to focus on 7 the issues in this community, give you a chance to come 8 back, and I'm sure we're going to have a lot more 9 discussion also when we move down to the South Coast area 10 as well. 11 But if board members -- I'm giving you a slight 12 hint that maybe there are no more questions, unless there 13 are any burning ones. 14 With that, I would like to, I guess, Mr. Kenny, 15 that's the end of the official -- 16 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Yes. 17 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I would like to, again, give 18 the community the maximum chance to give input here. We 19 have a number of people signed up. And I'm sure we'll 20 have some more signed up. 21 So with that, I would like to call at least the 22 first witnesses here, encourage them to sign up. I'd like 23 to call the first three at least in order there. Jean 24 Siri, Denny Larson And Karen Susag. 25 MS. SIRI: I'm grateful. I'm Jean Siri. I was PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 57 1 about to have to leave. I've been on the County Health 2 Board for many, many years. And one of our great issues 3 is children's asthma, and asthma that's now becoming more 4 prevalent in senior citizens. I would like to give you a 5 little history. 6 Thirty years ago, forgive me I'm old -- 30 years 7 ago, I was working at Peres School, which is a school in 8 the environmental justice community, to say the least. 9 And I was appalled by the amount of asthma I was seeing. 10 And so I tried very hard to get a study of lung capacity 11 for the children, because I knew of the delicacy of their 12 lungs. 13 And after great effort, I got the EPA to do a 14 lung cancer study, which wasn't really what I had in mind, 15 but they did a lung cancer study of the industrial area of 16 Contra Costa. And they found something like 35 percent 17 increase in lung cancer in the area, which didn't solve my 18 asthma problem exactly, but at least it made people more 19 aware of our problems in the industrial area. And there 20 are a lot of schools that are severely impacted. 21 Since we've had all these accidents, so-called 22 accidents emissions in the community, they're even more 23 impacted. There's a tremendous amount of asthma in the 24 community. I'm very pleased that you came and that you're 25 going to study it. And I hope that you come up with PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 58 1 something that's useful for us, because the kids that I 2 knew are now the parents, I suspect, or the grandparents 3 even, heaven knows. And they can use some help. 4 Thank you very much. 5 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank very much. 6 Also, we have got a major children's health study 7 going on, as well, going on now for nearly ten years in 8 southern California. And we must make sure we get some 9 information to you, because what that confirms is your 10 very real observation is the direct correlation obviously 11 between air pollution and asthma and the exacerbation, 12 maybe, creation of that in exercising obligations. 13 We appreciate your comments and we must make sure 14 we get that information to you. 15 MS. SIRI: Thank you very much. 16 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Now, we have Denny Larson. 17 MR. LARSON: Good evening. My name is Denny 18 Larson. I'm with Communities for a Better Environment. 19 If I could get your staff's assistance here, I'd like to 20 assist in my presentation with some overheads. 21 Maybe while they do that, I'll introduce myself a 22 little bit more to you and the organization that I 23 represent. Some of you know me very well and others not. 24 I work with Communities For a Better Environment. 25 We're both here and in Los Angeles. Dr. Burke, good to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 59 1 see you and others. We work in impacted communities, 2 environmental justice communities in both areas. And we 3 combine the technical research, legal action and community 4 organizing and education to try to address the problems 5 that we have been working on. 6 We're very happy that you're here today. We 7 thank you for coming out. We hope to see you again soon, 8 and some of the other areas in Contra Costa County that 9 also share this special burden of making the gasoline for 10 the rest of the State to burn. 11 We were also before the Board back when Reform 2 12 came through. And much of the information that the 13 Governor acted on and the ARB acted on MTBE was available 14 then and presented to the Board. Unfortunately, it went 15 ahead with putting MTBE in gasoline. We're finally 16 hopeful that we're going to reduce that, so we'll have to 17 get a little bit closer. 18 But anyway, we're here tonight with a number of 19 our community members and community organizers who live in 20 Richmond and who live in Rodeo, which is where the Tosco 21 up refinery is. So you'll be hearing from a number of our 22 members who live in Richmond and our youth members who are 23 here and the children's health that you'll hear about, 24 we've been able to get them out here tonight to tell you 25 about what they're doing to try to get the air cleaner, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 60 1 and actually monitor the pollution themselves through 2 something that you guys are -- some of you have been 3 acquainted with, what we call our Bucket Brigade, which I 4 will get to that in a minute. 5 (Thereupon an overhead presentation was 6 presented as follows.) 7 MR. LARSON: I guess I made my slides too big 8 here. But basically we were involved in the CARB 2 9 reformulated fuel process once it came down to Richmond 10 and Rodeo and the communities here in the Bay Area 11 involved in those permits. 12 And, unfortunately, the bargain that seemed to 13 have been made in those permits was that the reformulation 14 of gasoline was combined with tremendously large 15 profitability projects at all the refineries, so that they 16 could make more gasoline, in many cases, out of dirtier 17 crude oil. 18 And this has exacerbated pollution problems in 19 our community -- on our communities. Despite the fact 20 that the air in California is cleaner because gasoline 21 burns cleaner, the way the refineries are making that 22 gasoline has made more pollution, more accidents and more 23 health problems in our communities. 24 This has further been exacerbated by the fact 25 that the air district and the county and almost all PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 61 1 agencies continue to rely on industry self-reporting 2 rather than on verifiable scientific data about what their 3 emissions are. And the lack, further, of full air 4 monitoring of fence lines in our areas has contributed to 5 this lack of real information. 6 So we're very happy to be working with Linda 7 Murchison and her staff on this very important project to 8 really get some data about children who are growing up and 9 going to school in those areas. And the bottom line is 10 the result of that Reform 2 projects, unfortunately for 11 communities, was greater environmental injustice. 12 So when I conclude my presentation, I'd like to 13 talk to you a little bit about what we hope will come out 14 next in the way of action from the ARB and through the 15 Phase 3 process. 16 Next slide, please. 17 --o0o-- 18 MR. LARSON: I'd like to show you just exactly 19 how the refineries did this process, maybe just put the 20 barrels up there, just all four barrels at once, if you 21 can do that. 22 The first barrel, .04, shows you how much 23 distillation of San Joaquin heavy crude or dirty crude 24 full of different contaminants makes in the way of 25 gasoline products, very little. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 62 1 If you look at cleaner crude, such as West Texas 2 Intermediate, much, much more gasoline comes out of that 3 initial distillation. But what the refineries did and 4 having looked at the projects in LA, too, I feel fairly 5 confident they're saying this is not just a problem in the 6 Bay Area. While they were making the gasoline in a 7 content that would burn cleaner, they did that through 8 more intensively refining the product. 9 And the result was, Unocal being a refinery that 10 used to be in here and do San Joaquin Valley crude, after 11 that intense refining, you see the tremendous leap in the 12 amount of gasoline per barrel, instead of .4 up to 24.2. 13 In fact, it exceeded the amount of gasoline which you 14 could make from cleaner crude oil. And where did that 15 contamination go? You wonder. 16 Next slide. 17 --o0o-- 18 MR. LARSON: And did it actually generate more 19 contamination? Well, let me give you a graphic example 20 that's been proven. Let's look at selenium. In fact, as 21 dirty crude with higher selenium and its per barrel came 22 into use in the Bay Area and Unocal was using the dirtiest 23 selenium, this is just one chemical, but this is common 24 for a lot of the chemicals, including hazardous air 25 pollutants, there was a dramatic increase in pollution, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 63 1 because of intensive refining, the use of dirty crude and 2 making the cleaner burning gasoline. 3 Next slide. 4 --o0o-- 5 MR. LARSON: Okay. Let's talk about accidents 6 and reformulated gasoline. Right now, you're looking at a 7 chart which shows the number of serious incidents and 8 major accidents in Contra Costa refineries in the years 9 1999 and 2000. And this is all from the county's 10 database. 11 As you can see, although we have a variety of 12 chemical plants and facilities in Contra Costa County, the 13 refineries are by far and away responsible for not only 14 serious incidents, which are as toxic gas release, but a 15 fire or an explosion, worker community injury, that is 16 from an incident that could occur. A major accident is 17 one where it actually did occur. 18 And the difference is if you had a large gas 19 cloud release in an accident, and the only reason that 20 people weren't hurt or injured was the wind blew it out 21 across the bay, that's considered a serious incident, 22 because the ARB and Chevron or no oil company controls the 23 way the wind blows. And do you have to be able to prevent 24 those serious incidents and major accidents? 25 The good news is, is that it is clear that almost PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 64 1 all of those accidents can be prevented. Another couple 2 of quick points on this. We have seen data which shows us 3 that a single incident at a refinery, major accident in 4 particular, can cause a huge amount of emissions. 5 Sometimes that single accident releases more pollution 6 than the annual emissions permitted at the refinery for 7 that pollutant, a single incident, which in some cases 8 lasts only a couple of minutes, because of the high volume 9 of chemicals that are used and produced at high 10 temperature or pressure in the facility. And I'll go into 11 some more details about why that happens. 12 These accidental releases are unpermitted. They 13 are not covered by permits, so you can say I'm meeting my 14 permit level and release more than your permit allows in a 15 single incident and not violate your permit. I want to 16 come back to permits in a minute, because as your staff 17 says, probably they won't have to get permit changes for 18 the Phase 3, but there are so many bubbles and troubles in 19 these permits at these refineries that it's like swiss 20 cheese. 21 I mean just saying somebody is not going to 22 exceed their permit is relatively meaningless, because 23 they've got so many bubbles and things built into it, that 24 I don't think anybody can really tell you how much they 25 can put out. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 65 1 Okay, next slide. 2 --o0o-- 3 MR. LARSON: Let's look at the major accidents. 4 These are ones where workers of a community were injured, 5 fires and explosions, the really big ones. And as you can 6 see, in 99/2000, these were all, except for one incident, 7 at refineries, the Tosco carbon plant is a related plant 8 to Tosco Rodeo. 9 As you can see, the number of incidents in some 10 of the facilities has been increasing this year. What's 11 another reason we're concerned about this? 12 The next slide. 13 --o0o-- 14 MR. LARSON: Even though these are reports made 15 to the county, again, and are self-reported information. 16 Even within that self-reported information, the data shows 17 that in 47 percent of the time when an incident is 18 reported, such as oh, we're having a little upset here, 19 there may be a little bit of flaring, we don't expect the 20 community impact, for example, 47 percent of that time the 21 company is forced to admit, rather rapidly, that they 22 underestimated that, that their initial report was wrong 23 and it gets worse. 24 In the other cases, 53 percent of the time, we 25 don't know. We don't know if it was worse or not, but in PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 66 1 47 percent of the cases, we know by the company's own 2 admission that it got worse, and it was worse than we 3 originally reported. 4 Okay, next. 5 --o0o-- 6 MR. LARSON: What's even worse about that? Well, 7 when you look at hundreds of incidents in two years and 8 serious accidents, the county has, who is the agency that 9 oversees accidental release programs, has failed to go to 10 the scene of the accident or the incident 95 percent of 11 the time to verify the claims of the company. 12 So when I say, unknown, I mean really unknown. 13 We don't know what's going on out there. And without 14 fence line monitoring that surround these facilities and 15 Realtime for a variety of chemicals, we're never going to 16 know. 17 --o0o-- 18 MR. LARSON: Let's take a look at the type of 19 incidents we're talking about to show you very graphically 20 about why we are sure that this is creating a lot of air 21 pollution that's hazardous to children and people in the 22 vicinity. These are reoccurring incidents that are by 23 type. As you can see, the vast majority of those 24 incidents are large flaring events where the flare is 25 putting out black smoke and toxics. It's not able to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 67 1 combust the material completely or a pressure relief valve 2 or PRB, which both of these systems are designed to 3 prevent an accident from exploding at a refinery, which is 4 certainly a preferable thing to occur. 5 But in return for that benefit, pressure relief 6 valves and flares dump pollution directly into the 7 breathing space of communities without treatment, in most 8 cases when the flares are overwhelmed, and certainly 9 without capture and containment. Capture and containment 10 of these gases is completely doable. 11 And one thing I'd like to emphasize is that there 12 is tremendous opportunity to reduce pollution at 13 refineries. Most of their emissions come from fugitive 14 emission, which are leaks in their product into the 15 environment, that people have to breathe or from systems 16 that are designed to dump the pollution into the air where 17 people then have to breathe it. 18 And you can see the other types of incidents that 19 we have. All of them release toxic contaminants into the 20 air. 21 Finally -- or actually two more slides or a 22 couple more slides I'd like to show you that the various 23 units that were involved in these Reformuated 2 fuel 24 projects, most of them, in fact, where we look at these 25 major and serious incidents, the Chevron Isomax Unit, the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 68 1 FCC Unit, these were units that were integral and involved 2 in the profitability projects and reformulation projects. 3 Most of the units, where over and over again, we 4 have a problem and it just doesn't get fixed, it gets 5 Band-Aided as it blows up again, are from work that was 6 done on Reform 2 at these refineries. So there's still a 7 lot of work to do to make Reformuated 2 work for 8 communities who live next to those refineries, because 9 everybody else may be getting a little cleaner air through 10 cleaner burning gas, but communities are getting a lot 11 more pollution, and the companies are not getting to the 12 root of the problem and fixing it. 13 --o0o-- 14 MR. LARSON: Finally, let me show you in the 15 graph we're down in the year 2000, unfortunately these 16 reoccurring problems, as you might imagine, when they 17 don't get rooted out, are on the increase. And a lot of 18 these units are directly related and were worked on during 19 Reform 2. And they're continuing to get worse and worse 20 and worse causing more and more incidents. 21 So, in conclusion, my final slide is our 22 recommendations to you are that in the Reform 3 projects 23 and the work that is done, it's really incumbent upon all 24 the agencies to ensure that there is really no additional 25 pollution, and this means both from upsets as well as from PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 69 1 emissions. And we must not allow pollution trading 2 schemes, because we feel that unless the pollution is 3 reduced at the source, again, the fence line communities 4 are going to suffer from that as a way to mitigate that. 5 So saying that the gas is going to burn cleaner 6 even in the City of Richmond doesn't really make a 7 difference to the person that lives on the fence line and 8 is impacted by those. But we also feel that right now in 9 the phase that we're in that it's very incumbent upon CARB 10 to go back and work with the various agencies and the 11 companies and the impacted communities to fix Reform 2 at 12 those refinery projects. And that's a really urgent need 13 as you can see from the tremendous amount of major 14 accidents and serious incidents that we have. 15 We need increased enforcement. I know, as you're 16 aware, the federal EPA has targeted the refining industry 17 as the number one industry known to be majorly out of 18 compliance and they've been working on it real hard. We 19 need increased Realtime fence line monitors at all of 20 these facilities so that we know what's coming off the 21 fence line and crossing into the community 24/7. 22 And we need to make that data accessible to the 23 community so that they can be aware of that and they can 24 be part of the solution. So I thank you for letting me go 25 a little bit longer than maybe anticipated and I hope that PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 70 1 this is from a preliminary report that we will be 2 releasing soon. I, unfortunately, will have to collect 3 the data now and take it back to my confidential room, but 4 we will be providing that to ARB. 5 I was just so excited you guys were here tonight 6 that I cranked out a bunch of charts and data just to give 7 you an idea in person what we're going to be forwarding to 8 you and working with you on. And, again, I thank you very 9 much for your time tonight. 10 I would be happy to answer any brief questions 11 you have. I know we really want to get the community up 12 here. 13 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I know we have several 14 questions. The one I want to make clear as you say 15 clearly a number of your points were either focused on the 16 County, and I would look to Supervisor DeSaulnier to 17 address that issue. 18 (Laughter.) 19 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: And also to the local -- 20 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: The last time I invite 21 you back here. 22 (Laughter.) 23 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: And also to the local 24 district here, and clearly, that comes under Ellen. And 25 you're asking us to be harder on -- or I guess to put more PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 71 1 enforcement looks at the local districts. And I guess in 2 this case, the Bay Area, when we get down south, it would 3 primarily be the South Coast. 4 But maybe it would be fair to allow some response 5 there, at least from Supervisor DeSaulnier and maybe later 6 maybe Ellen would like to come up. 7 MR. LARSON: Let me just clarify, too, I 8 understand the different roles that the different agencies 9 have very well. But I believe it is incumbent upon CARB 10 to realize that changing the formula for gasoline plays 11 itself out at a refiner in real people's neighborhoods. 12 And we have some time before Reform 3 comes on line. And 13 I know you have a role to play with the air district and a 14 relationship with it. 15 Frankly, we think we need everybody's help to 16 come together on this. And because of the way the ARB has 17 presented itself and its programs now, we're very 18 encouraged by that. We're not so encouraged by some of 19 the activity or lack of activity on the part of the other 20 agencies. So we're looking to you to not divorce yourself 21 from how this plays out at the refineries and to help us 22 make sure that the other agencies are going to work with 23 us and we would resolve this altogether. 24 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Well, hopefully, you hit the 25 resident part for me when you talk about not trading off PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 72 1 the pollution, the stationary pollution here for benefits 2 elsewhere, and so the community is impacted by that. So I 3 think that's a very good issue there. 4 We have Supervisor DeSaulnier and Professor 5 Friedman and Dr. Burke. 6 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: I'd just comment. 7 Denny and I have a long and, intimate isn't the right 8 word, but -- 9 (Laughter.) 10 MR. LARSON: God, I hope not. 11 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: I'll say it's 12 passionate. I have great respect for Denny and the people 13 in his organization and the county like this where we have 14 industrial facilities. Their voice is definitely a 15 benefit to try to get a proper balance. I think our 16 Health Department, I'll speak from our perspective, I'm 17 very proud of our health department. 18 I think, Denny, you would admit that we've come a 19 long way in the last seven years in terms of oversight. I 20 know you'd like to go further and I think we're more than 21 willing to talk about that. 22 But the one thing I will share with my colleagues 23 where I think Denny is absolutely right is, there is a 24 tendency in government whether it's State level or federal 25 level or local level to confine ourselves to our area of PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 73 1 responsibility without thinking of the multimedia effects. 2 And I can tell you as somebody who sits on an air 3 district and then sits on a governing body of a health 4 department with four refineries in the county, that there 5 are many effects. It's funny when we were doing 6 Reformulated 3, when we were going through the hearing, 7 the Mayor of Huntington Park got up and talked about the 8 concerns they had. Obviously, I sat there as a Contra 9 Costa Supervisor and said well, that's no different than 10 what my constituents are going to have to deal with in 11 Contra Costa County when they have 200 additional diesel 12 truck trips on the road. 13 So it is the aggregate. It's the accumulation of 14 these things. I don't think -- I think there has to be a 15 vehicle created where we work together. And I think it 16 doesn't require additional resources. It actually will 17 turn out a little better work product. That if you had 18 CalOSHA working with CARB working with the air district, 19 working with the county health department, you'd have a 20 better work product. 21 And too often, we do things more or less, in 22 isolation and walk away from them. So I'm in agreement 23 with Denny, it would be much more effective for us to work 24 together. If there's a way, for instance, to do a pilot 25 project level here, and I know all of these agencies do PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 74 1 meet together on a staff level from time to time, but I 2 think their might be a better way to do it. 3 So in that regard, I'm in complete agreement with 4 Denny, that there's got to be a collective way, and maybe 5 CARB is the agency to show leadership on that, and 6 potentially get some legislation to fund the pilot project 7 that would have all these agencies work together. 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: We should ask staff to 9 explore that. That would be good. 10 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: We'd be happy to do 11 that. I mean, actually, I think Denny raises a very good 12 point. In particular, I think two of the things that I 13 think we want to look at in a greater emphasis is with 14 some of the fence line monitoring sessions he made and at 15 the same time some of the reporting obligations that maybe 16 can be enhanced in some fashion. 17 And so I think following up on what Supervisor 18 DeSaulnier was saying, we are happy to essentially work 19 with the other agencies in trying to figure out how we can 20 essentially look to it from, kind of, a wholistic 21 standpoint as opposed to the single media approaches. 22 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: And, Allan, just a 23 closing thought. I have this reoccurring nightmare that 24 what we're seeing with the energy crisis will reoccur for 25 those of us who have to deal with Reformulated 3 when it PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 75 1 comes on the market. And there are things when you read a 2 CalOSHA report, on some of these incidents where people 3 have lost their lives, it's pretty easy to understand the 4 relationship between what happens operationally inside 5 these plants and then what happens in terms of the 6 corporate level trying to market the product and hit the 7 spot market and what consequently could happen to air 8 quality because of those pressures. 9 It's pretty obvious there are relationships 10 there. So given that we're going to have to deal with the 11 potential for greater pressure in terms of supply when 12 Reformulated 3 comes on line, now might be the time for us 13 to work with sister agencies to try and anticipate that. 14 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I'm glad you mentioned that. 15 I've already talked to Commissioner Keese at the Energy 16 Commission. We are launching, in fact, a joint study to 17 look at that very issue, because as you say it doesn't 18 take a rocket scientist to recognize we need to plan 19 ahead. 20 And I agree with you completely. So it's prudent 21 for us, as the lead agency on cleaner breathing air and 22 the Blend 3, to do that. So we'll be delighted to do 23 that. 24 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: I clearly am not a 25 rocket scientist. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 76 1 (Laughter.) 2 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Professor Friedman. 3 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Well, Supervisor 4 DeSaulnier covered a couple of points I was going to make. 5 One, I didn't hear either you or our Executive Officer 6 mention, maybe I missed it, that also struck resonance 7 with me is the -- to the extent that it is the case that 8 there is not rigid enforcement or stringent enforcement or 9 even standardized penalties for enforcement in monitoring 10 to the extent that we have any control over that, vis a 11 vis other agencies. 12 I'd like to very much take a look at that. It 13 seems to me there's no point in having requirements or 14 permits, at least in which I'm involved in, that don't 15 have appropriate, reasonable sanctions, and that people 16 don't know that if they trust us or violate the rule, 17 they're going to have to pay the price. 18 And it ought to be a price that's stiff enough so 19 they don't do a cross benefit analysis and say let's 20 violate it. You know, I know we all do that, we go out 21 and park our car and figure well, what's $25 for this 22 time. But, you know, I guess we're inconveniencing 23 others, but we're not affecting their health particularly. 24 This is serious stuff, and I take it seriously. 25 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 77 1 Dr. Burke then Mr. Calhoun. 2 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Denny, I was just going to 3 congratulate you over the last seven years how much better 4 the CBE presentations have gotten, and I almost went 5 cross-eyed trying to read those charts from this distance. 6 What was really interesting to me is where did 7 you get your stats on 95 percent of the time nobody goes 8 out and checks? 9 MR. LARSON: There's a form that the county fills 10 out. What happens is a company will call the county and 11 say we're having an incident. 12 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Don't they have to call the 13 AQMD? 14 MR. LARSON: They have to make a series of calls. 15 This data came from the county's database. So when I say, 16 and I clearly said, you know, at times the county went to 17 the scene. And they are the primary responder for 18 accident prevention stuff, you're right. An air district 19 staff person may have come to the scene, but again, their 20 you know, function is a little different. 21 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: If I found out that there 22 was 95 percent of the time in the South Coast someone 23 didn't go out and check, you know, Peter would be going 24 the next day. But we have in South Coast a guy we call 25 Super Cop. And let me tell you, if somebody smells PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 78 1 something, he's got a guy out there. 2 Now, what we did was last Friday is we approved 3 two and a half million dollars in enforcement money 4 because enforcement -- you can write all the rules you 5 want, but if you don't enforce them -- and we found out 6 that enforcement money is a good investment on two points. 7 One, it makes the people follow rules and it 8 makes the air quality improve. Two, it brings money back 9 into the hopper so we can higher more enforcers. 10 Now, the way we started it in South Coast was 11 with the gas station operators that, you know, they just 12 weren't -- they just said we're not going to do it. We 13 hired a few and it's amazing what we're doing with gas 14 station pumps now in containing fumes. 15 But I would -- rather than do another study, I'd 16 suggest to the Chairman that we get our enforcement 17 division together and we see what we can do to motivate 18 other AQMDs around the State to have some kind of 19 standardized enforcement program, so that when we pass a 20 regulation or they pass a regulation, that we make sure 21 it's uniformly enforced. 22 MR. LARSON: If I could just add, Dr. Lloyd. 23 Again, I was talking about the county responding, the 24 County HAZMAT division, rather -- one of the reasons I 25 can't give you that information is that any time I would PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 79 1 want a record like that from the air district here, I'd 2 have to go through a complicated program. I would give 3 the county credit and that could take months with the air 4 district here. 5 With the county, I make a call. I can go out and 6 look at all of the records and compile data in that. It's 7 just not possible to do this kind of study with the air 8 district. We'd really like your help with that, because 9 we'd like to have more access to air district data on 10 incidents and be able to know that. 11 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Supervisor, I think you were 12 going to follow up. 13 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: I wasn't going to go 14 into this too much, but I would like to say, and Denny, I 15 appreciate that comment at the end, that in the time I've 16 been on the County Board, which is coming up on the 17 beginning of eight years, as Denny knows, we've done a lot 18 of things. And the City of Richmond, I think, they still 19 self-certify in terms of the building inspections. We 20 have building inspectors now in all the plants now. 21 We didn't do that before. We have just funded 22 independent surprise inspections at the plants, so we're 23 trying very hard, Denny, I think you would admit. Can we 24 do more? We can do more. We're doing this fees. 25 Actually, CARB I believe, the audit said that we needed to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 80 1 raise our fines and fees at the air district, resulted in 2 us increasing those. 3 So I think it's a point well taken. I think 4 we're trying to balance between our own local demands and 5 the requirements of the refineries to keep product in line 6 and keep it at a reasonable price, but we could do more. 7 And I think we can do it better together with CARB 8 involved and some kind of joint effort. 9 And I think that would be worth pursuing. But 10 the idea of 95 percent, I'd like to talk to you more about 11 that, because I'd like to know completely for my whole 12 benefit, as a member of the governing body in this county, 13 that what that 95 percent is in seriousness of those and 14 how we can make it better. 15 MR. LARSON: Yeah. We will be presenting the 16 data when it gets crushed out here finally to everybody. 17 And I think that will be important. Just look at the box, 18 and it's checked, it didn't go to that, so that's how I 19 got it. 20 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Mr. Calhoun. 21 BOARD MEMBER CALHOUN: You mentioned the fact 22 that there are a number of incidents occurring in 23 refineries, obviously, the flare and all the safety, but 24 are you suggesting that these things happen too often? 25 MR. LARSON: Absolutely. In fact, I agree with PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 81 1 Jean Siri. They're not really accidents. I mean, when 2 your half tracker is blowing up eight times a year and 3 it's the same thing over and over again, that's not an 4 accident at all. These are serious incidents that are 5 occurring in toxic releases. And I am clearly alleging 6 that the refineries are not doing a good job nor are the 7 agencies that are overseeing them ensuring that these 8 problems get fixed. 9 They're letting it just go on and on and on and 10 on. And the data shows it's getting worse and worse and 11 worse. 12 BOARD MEMBER CALHOUN: Is the solution then 13 heavier fines? 14 MR. LARSON: Well, absolutely, that's a piece of 15 it. But we have a model regulation here in the county 16 that we're working to try to get the city of Richmond to 17 adopt, because one thing I didn't mention is Chevron is 18 not under that safety ordinance that we have in the 19 county, that may be one of the reasons why they show up 20 the worst on the chart. But we need to do some more work 21 on the county safety ordinance to ensure that we know 22 better what's going on, that we're out at the scene more, 23 and so that when one of these incidents happens, we ensure 24 that it really gets fixed at the root cause of it, rather 25 than a Band-Aid fix, that lasts a couple of weeks and then PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 82 1 it blows up again. 2 BOARD MEMBER CALHOUN: Thank you. 3 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I'm sorry, Denny didn't take 4 the opportunity when Mr. Calhoun asked you that question 5 that the solution didn't include electric vehicles. 6 (Laughter.) 7 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Well, yeah. We look forward 8 to having to rely less on refineries and more and more -- 9 I think that would help us all quite a great deal. So I'd 10 like to see lots of zero emission vehicles out there. And 11 I'm sure that the oil companies would be happy to switch 12 over to producing clean energy at some point. 13 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Ms. D'Adamo. 14 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: One of the slides that I 15 found troubling was the selenium discharge slide. Could 16 you respond to whether or not that increase had anything 17 to do with the changeover in the last round of RFG 2 and 18 does -- 19 MR. LARSON: Oh, that absolutely did. Yeah, what 20 I'm saying to you is that in RFG 2 the more intensive 21 refining that all of the refineries did whether they used 22 a dirtier crude, higher selenium and sulfur contaminants 23 or whether they did not, resulted in more pollution and we 24 believe more accidents, because you have more of these 25 dangerous pollutants that you're having to deal with. For PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 83 1 example, a clear example is the gas compressors, and 2 sulfur recovery units are one of the ones that keep going 3 out. 4 Why is that? Well, under more intensive refining 5 you have more hydrogen sulfide that you have to try to 6 contain with the same old compressor. And, of course, 7 it's going to break down more and release it to the 8 environment. 9 So, yeah, absolutely it's that -- I mean, that 10 pollution has to go somewhere. If you're taking it out of 11 gasoline, it's got to go somewhere. And where that 12 somewhere is is the environment where people live and fish 13 near refineries. 14 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: A couple of follow-up 15 questions, too, then. Do you expect that those 16 contaminants would continue that you should see a 17 continuing increase with the selenium discharges and other 18 contaminants? 19 MR. LARSON: Yes, we do. 20 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: And second, what has been 21 the response of the Regional Water Quality Control Board? 22 MR. LARSON: Well, we finally got the selenium 23 thing handled after quite a few lawsuits. And so we've 24 solved that now. The selenium is being removed from the 25 bay, but that's about the only contaminant in the heavier PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 84 1 crude that I can report to you gladly has been reduced, 2 and largely, again, through the action of citizen suits 3 against the Water Board, unfortunately, and against the 4 refiners. 5 And we're going to have to clean up the air 6 around refineries by suing over every contaminant. A lot 7 more kids are going to have asthma and a lot more people 8 are going to be dead, that's why we need the agencies and 9 CARB to, I think, lead us in this effort as you begin to 10 go through your children's health work to make sure that 11 we get it done a little bit quicker than that and we go 12 back and we visit CARB 2, the way it was implemented to 13 solve some of these problems. 14 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I have a question of staff 15 to follow up. Does staff agree that selenium and other 16 contaminants would be -- we'd expect to see an increase. 17 And, if so, what are we doing to work with some of the 18 other agencies in the multimedia review of this issue. 19 MR. LARSON: I'm going to step down, but thank 20 you. 21 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 22 CHIEF SIMEROTH: When it looked like we were going to go 23 to Phase 3 reformulated gasoline, we sent a notice out to 24 the affected other State agencies and local committee 25 agencies alerting them that this was going to be happening PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 85 1 about the changes that we thought would be coming. 2 We met with those that were reasonable to meet 3 with, still continuing to have that coordination. In 4 terms of, yes, there is more processing of the barrel of 5 the crude, it used to be that the bottom of the barrel, 6 the distillate oil, would be burned in power plants. 7 That's not happening. 8 So the refineries that can economically stay in 9 business have to do something with that part of the crude 10 oil. And they're turning that into gasoline and diesel. 11 And that's happening not only in California, but it's 12 happening nationwide. 13 We're not the only ones that have more complex 14 refineries. The refineries that are staying in business 15 are becoming more complex everywhere, and they're doing 16 the same thing. They're processing more of that barrel 17 into more vehicle use, because that's where the demand is. 18 And in terms of accepting it, well, should there 19 be pollution from that? No, of course not. We're working 20 with the Bay Area and south coast to deal with what goes 21 into the air, making sure that the water districts and the 22 Water Board, I should say, is aware that there's a 23 potential here, and they're looking into it and to 24 continue advising them that they have discharge permits on 25 all of the refineries for refining waterways. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 86 1 So it's not being ignored. Maybe, we're not 2 doing good enough yet. Maybe more coordination, such as 3 Dr. Lloyd mentioned needs to be done, but it's not 4 acceptable. We're not saying that at all. 5 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I think one of the things 6 that, speaking to Professor Friedman, might be very 7 helpful, because as I recollect when we looked at cleaner 8 burning gasoline, this particular issued wasn't 9 highlighted as much and maybe staff could report back to 10 us and maybe possibly before we have the meeting down in 11 South Coast to give an idea, you know, of how real this 12 issue is, and what can be done. 13 The other thing I have concern is that I agree we 14 need more fence line monitoring, but I'm almost concerned 15 that fence line monitors are not going to pick up the 16 emissions from this. This is going to be the plume rises 17 and it's going to be dispersed elsewhere. So our models 18 should also be taking a look at where is that likely to be 19 an impact. In more communities there may not be fence 20 lines, but there may be -- 21 CRITERIA POLLUTANTS STATIONARY SOURCE DIVISION 22 CHIEF SIMEROTH: Dr. Lloyd, you're absolutely correct. If 23 you have a fence line monitor down low, you're not going 24 to see most of this. It's got to be a more sophisticated 25 approach than simply doing that. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 87 1 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: So see that we do that. 2 Mr. McKinnon. 3 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Yeah, I can't help 4 myself, but if we're having the discussion about accidents 5 in this community, I think it's really important to note 6 on the lives of five workers who died in accidents in this 7 community, that outrageous training processes occurred 8 here. 9 And we found out how inadequate the fines of 10 CalOSHA were. I think, basically, those companies paid 11 about $100,000 per life for the workers who died here. 12 And last year fortunately Assemblyman Steinberg 13 moved legislation to increase some of those fines. And so 14 it's not a question, but it is a piece of what has 15 happened here. And it certainly is not an area that this 16 Board regulates. The Department of Industrial Relations 17 does. 18 But you can be assured that actually I was with 19 the Chair when we got the news of the accident over here. 20 And the first call was to the Department of Industrial 21 Relations. So the other question I have, and it's really 22 for CBE, and I can wait for a different speaker, I think 23 Mr. Larson sat down, but I'm interested in kind of a short 24 and sweet answer about what your position is on the waiver 25 issue? PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 88 1 MR. LARSON: I'm just in the back of the room. 2 As to the last time you issued a waiver, we sued you over 3 it. We don't like waivers. 4 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Wrong waiver. I'm sorry. 5 The oxygenate waiver versus the ethanol. 6 MR. LARSON: Oh, the oxygenate waiver, we're all 7 in favor of it. We've been in favor of the waiver for 8 years. 9 (Laughter.) 10 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Can you ask somebody in 11 the administration for us? 12 (Laughter.) 13 MR. LARSON: No, I can't. I was talking about 14 the waiver when Chevron was going to obtain it to burn 15 dirty gas. 16 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I'm glad you clarified that, 17 Denny. I was beginning to think no matter what the 18 question was the answer was we sued you. 19 MR. LARSON: Unfortunately, it often is, but 20 hopefully we'll have a much better relationship with the 21 new administration. 22 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you, Dr. Burke. 23 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Following Mr. McKinnon's 24 question, I'd like to ask Mr. Kenny, I have found normally 25 the fine assessment for a plant is set by the local AQMD. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 89 1 The political will of these districts is sometimes 2 lacking. Is there a way by which we, as a Board, if we so 3 desire, could mandate, like, a fine menu, if you do this 4 you get this, if you do this twice, you get that. You 5 know, that's my first question? 6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Actually, I think it's 7 a very good question. And, in fact, as the issue came up 8 earlier, I was thinking about that a little bit, because 9 what you're saying is very true, is that there has been 10 this scenario in terms of how violations are treated 11 around the State. This Board really doesn't have sort of 12 the direct authority to implement a fine schedule that 13 would be universal throughout the State. 14 However, this board does have the ability to 15 ensure that such a schedule was enforced throughout the 16 State. And what I mean by that is that we have brought 17 before this board in the past suggested control measures 18 with regard to how different districts should essentially 19 adopt emission reduction standards. 20 There probably is no reason why we could not 21 bring before you a suggested control approach with regard 22 to a fine schedule. And to the extent that this Board 23 approved that, I think what would end up happening is that 24 it would be very difficult for any portion of the State to 25 not follow that schedule, otherwise what would occur is it PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 90 1 would be quite obvious that they are moving away from what 2 this board is basically establishing as a uniform and 3 reasonable standard of compliance. 4 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: I, as a member of South 5 Coast, would love to see that happen. I would support 6 that two million percent. 7 The other comment I'd like to say before our next 8 speaker is that I think the Supervisor has said something 9 tonight which we all are going to find very prophetic in 10 the very near term. When we take this MTBE out of this 11 gasoline, we're going to find out that we are in the same 12 situation, mechanically, with refineries that we are with 13 power generating plants today, because most of them in 14 this State are about the same age. 15 And when you crank them up and -- because if you 16 take ten percent of the entire manufacturing capability of 17 gasoline away from these guys, they've got to turn the 18 burners up ten percent. And the machines aren't going to 19 hold and the pollution is going to come. 20 So I think instead of being behind the power 21 curve, that's something that we need to think about. 22 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: As I mentioned, we're already 23 talking to Commissioner Keese. We've got a program on the 24 way to do that. But that's exactly right, why we need to 25 show that leadership, so I'm delighted that we're of one PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 91 1 mind there, because it needs to be, and I think both of 2 you added some dimension to that study if you add to that 3 -- I think Denny added to some of the safety impacts of 4 that, so it's important. 5 Anyone else? 6 Professor Friedman. I think then we have to move 7 on. 8 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: I just want to 9 quickly add, because I did raise the issue of sanctions or 10 penalties and enforcement standards, and I don't recall, 11 along with the Chairman, when we considered, debated and 12 approved the reformulation number 3 that the -- realize, 13 at least I, for one, didn't realize that, based on the 14 testimony here today, that because of the impact on the 15 refineries that potentially we're worsening air pollution, 16 at least, locally, in and about the area of the 17 refineries, because of the additional pressure. 18 And I do think it's our responsibility to 19 continue to look at that closely and see what we can do 20 within our authority. And I would appreciate it if staff 21 would look at that, whether it has to do with working with 22 the local districts of standardizing penalties or other 23 control measures or whatever else we can do, because I 24 think it's our responsibility. 25 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: All right. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 92 1 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. I would like -- 2 we've got about another ten witnesses, and we've got about 3 an hour and five minutes. So if we can move through that, 4 we have Karen Susag, Ethel Dotson, Geri Casaneres. 5 MS. SUSAG: My name is Karen Susag. I'm a 6 community organizer that works for Communities for a 7 Better Environment. I work here in Richmond with 8 community members that live near Richmond Refinery, 9 Chevron Refinery and in and around the sacrifice zone, as 10 we like to call it, right here in Richmond. 11 And I'd like to just make a comment about 12 environmental justice that I think has been an illustrated 13 concern of some of the comments that you all have made. 14 If you have indeed a commitment to environmental justice, 15 which was stated at the beginning, and if that indeed is a 16 commitment that you're going to follow through on, you 17 can't be doing pollution trading. It can't be something 18 that you allow communities of color and low-income 19 communities to be in a sacrifice zone and to be the 20 fodder, so that the rest of us can drive our SUVs and do 21 what we want. That's not acceptable. 22 And if your commitment to environmental justice 23 is a true commitment, then that is something that the 24 balance of it we will be looking at that issue first, 25 saying, are the communities that are living near these PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 93 1 facilities in the impacted communities, can they live, 2 work and play in air that is unhealthy? 3 The statistics at the beginning was 90 percent of 4 us, at times, breathe air that's unhealthy. I bet if you 5 talked to folks here in Richmond, you wouldn't find that 6 it's 90 percent of the time. It's 100 percent of the time 7 that they're breathing air that is unhealthy. And the 8 health problems of the folks that I work with are 9 staggering. 10 And I spent the afternoon with community members 11 that are having incredible health problems. And we were 12 talking about how it is that they can get the care that 13 they need. Living near a refinery their whole life 14 doesn't take a rocket scientist, as it was said earlier, 15 to figure out why it is they're so sick. 16 I think the final thing to say is that if 17 increased reformulation leads to increased accidents, then 18 the only way to get to environmental justice is to look at 19 that first, and to say we can't reformulate fuel -- we 20 can't have this balance between making sure that the 21 refineries are making money and environmental justice. It 22 doesn't quite work that way. We need our workers. We 23 need the people in the community to live, work and play in 24 environments that are safe and healthy. 25 So I think looking at alternative energy is PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 94 1 something that would be a really, really nice conversation 2 to have. But I also wanted to just encourage you to come 3 back to Richmond, come back to the community. I think 4 this is where these discussions belong. There needs to be 5 more notice so that more people from the community can 6 come. 7 It needs to be more of a regular thing so that 8 people will get used to having different agencies in the 9 community, because a one-time deal maybe people can come, 10 maybe they can't. 11 So thank you very much and we'll be seeing you, 12 I'm sure. 13 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. I think we've had 14 a great education so far this evening so we appreciate it, 15 Susan. 16 MS. SUSAG: This is just the list of major 17 accidents in Richmond in '99 and 2000 with a brief 18 description to give you an idea of what people here have 19 been living with. And I think this is illustrated to the 20 rest of the State also in the other communities you all 21 are from and work in. 22 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Dr. Burke. 23 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: One thing I'd like to 24 discuss is what we did in Los Angeles was work with 25 Assemblyman Marco Firebaugh. And what he did was he got PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 95 1 the money from the State directly to our air district so 2 we have now a fleet of mobile testing facilities for 3 children, so they can go everywhere. 4 I mean, literally, these vans are more 5 sophisticated than Cedars Sinai Hospital in Los Angeles. 6 And they go to every school. They test every child. And 7 the computer bank then downloads, so that you can track 8 not only does the child have a problem now, but in six 9 months when the van goes back, is the child picking up 10 this problem or is it a degenerating lung capacity and all 11 of those kind of disorders. 12 And you need to be talking to your local elected 13 representative to see if you can't get them to fund those 14 kind of assets for you. This is a war. 15 MS. SUSAG: Well, right. And exactly to that 16 point, I think it's fine to monitor our children, but I 17 used the analogy that if your kitchen is flooding, okay, 18 what's the first thing you do? Do you start to bail the 19 water or do you turn off the faucet? You turn off the 20 faucet. And that's what the agencies need to do to make 21 sure that we don't have to monitor our children every six 22 months. 23 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: If it's my kid, I want to 24 know if he's getting sick. I don't mind turing off the 25 faucet. I want to know my child is getting sick. So, you PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 96 1 know, I need both of them. 2 MS. SUSAG: Well, both is fine, but make sure 3 that we're turning off the faucet. 4 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Mr. Chair, in terms of 5 what Dr. Burke mentioned, we do have mobile vans here in 6 this county, largely because of Mark, who used to head our 7 health department here and now heads the Los Angeles -- 8 their county health department. 9 So we do have those facilities and we also have 10 clinics, another new clinic in North Richmond, which is 11 right down wind of these facilities. And they're helpful, 12 but we could do more, right? 13 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Ethel Dotson. 14 MS. DOTSON: This is on. 15 Well, I'm Ethel Dotson. I'm so happy to see that 16 you all are here this evening. And like Karen said, it's 17 not just one time. It has to be on a continuous basis, 18 and a little bit more often also, too. 19 I've lived in Richmond since 1943. And believe 20 me, I have been living around refineries and industrial 21 pollutant sources since 1943. I come from Louisiana, 22 Longville, Louisiana, where the pollution problem is very, 23 very bad there. And they tested 28 people in December of 24 1998 and they found high levels, high levels of dioxins 25 and other chemicals in people's bodies. So it's not fun, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 97 1 believe me. 2 And it is so many people that are dying, dying. 3 The doctors at Kaiser said, "You all need to move." I 4 said, "But we can't move. Where are we going to move to? 5 We don't have the money." 6 UCSF, the Environmental and Occupational Clinic 7 said you need to move. I can't believe that you all are 8 living around all this pollution. 9 And, again, I said to them, "We don't have the 10 money." So people need some relocation benefits. You 11 can't have industry and have people living around all of 12 the chemicals like this. 13 You know, we may as well face it. Their needs to 14 be some money put into testing, just like they did in 15 Louisiana and everybody saying that they don't have no 16 money. But it's mighty strange that the State of 17 California came up with all this money to give to all of 18 these energy companies, and they're talking about this 19 energy crisis, but it's a conspiracy, you know, because 20 they was supposed to deal with the inability to pay for 21 this. 22 And also they're talking about reducing down the 23 environmental laws so that there is more pollution in the 24 State and in this country. Oh, no, no, no, that cannot 25 be. They're going through the back door with the energy PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 98 1 crisis to try to reduce down the environmental laws and 2 you cannot do that, please. 3 My mother has emphysema. She's never smoked a 4 day in her life and she's 78 years of age. My father 5 cannot walk, and my mother has Lupus. My sister is dead. 6 She died in 1985 at 45 years of age, when she had Lupus at 7 a very, very young age. And it's -- I'm trying to keep 8 from crying, because this is really -- it's sad, you know, 9 what's happening to people in the community. 10 And I think that you all have the responsibility 11 to do something. I sued you all in 1989 where there's a 12 law here, we should be paying lower property taxes, 13 because we live around stationary air pollution sources. 14 I was glad to hear you say that Mr. DeSaulnier about the 15 stationary sources. 16 And this law is so clear, you know, zones 17 differing tax formulas and this is from the Health and 18 Safety Code, 40231, the Bay District Zones differing tax 19 formulas. 20 "The Bay District Board may..." and 21 that's how I lost, because the word says 22 may in one paragraph and then further 23 down it says shall. "The Bay District 24 Board may establish within the bay 25 district, zones wherein differing tax PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 99 1 formulas may be applied. In 2 establishing such zones, the bay 3 district board shall consider the degree 4 of concentration on population, the 5 number, nature and disbursement of 6 stationary sources of air pollution, 7 whether the area is a rural agricultural 8 area and the presence or absence of 9 industry. 10 "Standards for odor causing 11 substance," 40232, "The bay district 12 board shall establish standards for the 13 emission of identifiable odor causing 14 substances. Exceptions on variances may 15 be granted from such standards in a 16 manner provided by the bay district 17 board. No person shall discharge from 18 any source any contaminant which 19 violates such standards. 20 "40230, Zone Special Regulations. 21 The bay district board may establish 22 within the bay district zones wherein 23 special regulations are warranted. In 24 establishing such zones, the bay 25 district board shall consider the degree PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 100 1 of concentration of the number, nature 2 and disbursement of the stationary 3 sources of air pollution whether the 4 area is a rural, agricultural area and 5 the presence or absence of industry." 6 So it's clearly, clearly here, but folks have 7 been turning their head and stuffing up their ears, but 8 they cannot hear us. You know, so we need relocation 9 benefits. I'm ready to get out of here. You know, you 10 need the buffer zones, clearly. You know, the stuff goes 11 for miles. 12 Congressman Waxman did a report and said that the 13 industry was underreporting, it was, over millions of tons 14 of chemicals that's going up into the air and it's 15 affecting people. All type of problems, kidney problems, 16 diabetes, cancer, Lupus, you name it, it's there. 17 I went to Atlanta in January of 2000 for the 18 Agency for Toxic Substances Disease Registry, Health 19 Research Agenda. And they said tell us what's happening. 20 They say well, we don't know what type of health problems 21 that people are having with the chemicals that they have 22 been exposed to. I said you have to be kidding, not when 23 I have a big chemical dictionary at my house. And if you 24 just get a whiff of the stuff, it's dead, you're through. 25 You know, an ATSDR is saying, you know, there's PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 101 1 really no cure. The doctors don't know how to treat it 2 and all we can do is offer services to people, you know. 3 So what we're saying is we need to be 4 compensated. You know, what you all need to do is -- 5 we're doing property tax formula, then you need to put 6 that on the back of industry. They have to pay for that 7 so that the citizens don't lose from people sitting around 8 the sources, et cetera and stuff, just like you're doing 9 with the energy companies and stuff. You know, put it on 10 them, you know. 11 You know we have to be compensated, because, you 12 know, we're ill. And CBE, we did this, and we want to be 13 tested and now folks are saying, well, we really can't do 14 that. So hopefully that you all can find some legislative 15 representatives that could introduce some legislation 16 to -- so that we can be tested, because we have the right 17 to know what we have been exposed to and what has gotten 18 into our bodies. 19 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Do you have a copy of that 20 article? 21 MS. DOTSON: Yes, I could -- maybe someone in the 22 city. I think you need a copy of this lawsuit also so 23 that you can follow through with that. Like I went all 24 the way up to the Court of Appeals. And the Court of 25 Appeals said Ms. Dotson, you are right, because we be PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 102 1 passing from San Francisco going to Sacramento and we be 2 smelling all the bad stuff. 3 You know, so they said rather than dealing with 4 it on a judicial basis, you all deal with it in the 5 communities and stuff. So that's why I'm glad that you 6 are here, so that hopefully we can get things worked out. 7 Thank you. 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: We appreciate very much your 9 coming. 10 MS. DOTSON: So glad to see you, Dr. Burke. 11 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: I'm glad to be here. It's 12 really interesting you talk about Louisiana, because I was 13 in the Air Force, my call sign was Red 655, which stood 14 for Baton Rouge. So when I report in, let me tell you 15 something, at 45,000 feet when you fly over Baton Rouge, 16 you can smell it. You can smell it. So I know what 17 you're saying. It's true. 18 MS. DOTSON: Even with seeing the white smoke 19 come out, it really panics me, because it's going up in 20 the air and it's coming right through the vents into your 21 house. 22 Thank you. 23 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. 24 Geri Casaneres, Barbara Parker, Tina Cosentino. 25 MS. SUSAG: Geri and Barbara are going to pass to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 103 1 Henry Clark. 2 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: What? 3 MS. SUSAG: Geri and Barbara are going to pass to 4 Henry Clark. 5 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Oh, okay. That's good. 6 We have Tina Cosentino, Rebecca Matson. 7 MS. COSENTINO: Hi. I'm Tina. I'm the youth 8 coordinator for Communities for a Better Environment. I 9 work with the kids to help kids against environmental 10 pollution. And we're very happy to be here today. 11 The youth are here to share with you a little bit 12 about their community and their experience and why they're 13 involved with CBE. They live in Bayo Vista. Bayo Vista 14 is a housing project that's up in Rodeo, which is the 15 north part of Contra Costa County. And the housing 16 project is about 250 units, housing units, with a 17 population of 900. 18 Of those 900, there's about 600 children. So 19 there's a lot of children in this neighborhood. And 20 that's why a lot of interest and involvement with the 21 youth project. 22 It's on the fence line of the Tosco, Rodeo Oil 23 Refinery. They share the fence. It's their backyard. 24 They can tell you more about that in a little bit. I was 25 just going to introduce a little bit about what they're PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 104 1 going to share with you about their concerns with health 2 and pollution in their neighborhood, which led to a health 3 survey last summer, where we surveyed and interviewed 80 4 different houses in the housing project. 5 Of those 80 different houses that we surveyed, 6 over half of them said that they had one or more cases of 7 asthma in their household, was children with asthma. So 8 this is definitely something the youth are concerned 9 about. 10 Something else the youth have been involved in is 11 their own air monitoring. They're going to share with you 12 today about the buckets, and what's known as the Bucket 13 Brigade. This is their own -- they take their own 14 samples. They build the buckets. It's a low, tight air 15 sampling device. And they train their neighbors on how to 16 be good neighbors and sniffers and learning more about 17 what's in the air and how it's affecting our health. 18 The youth have also been working and learning 19 about the fence line monitoring project, which is 20 something unique to the Tosco/Rodeo Oil Refinery. They 21 test for over 300 chemicals and it's the only refinery in 22 the world doing this level of monitoring. And we think 23 that this is important in that it should be a model for 24 other refineries to do similar levels of monitoring. 25 And they'll explain a little bit more of what PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 105 1 they're doing on that. So I'd like to introduce Lucia and 2 Angelo. They're going to speak about the fence line 3 monitor. And, Wendy, I believe is going to speak first on 4 the buckets and the monitoring. 5 MS. BANEGAS: I'm Wendy Banegas. This is an air 6 monitor bucket. This is how it works. 7 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Can you pull the microphone a 8 little bit closer to you. 9 MS. BANEGAS: When we smell something funny in 10 our neighborhood, we take a sample. We turn it on with a 11 button that's right here. I don't know if you guys can 12 see it. This is a vacuum. It's like a little vacuum 13 picker upper. It takes the air sample. And then there's 14 a bag inside and it takes a sample and puts it in -- the 15 air is inside. 16 And when we're done with it, when the sample is 17 done, we take it out and take it to the lab and the lab 18 tests it. And it tells us -- they respond back to us 19 saying if it's bad air or good air or if -- 20 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Which lab do you send it to? 21 MS. BANEGAS: Performance -- 22 (Laughter.) 23 MS. COSENTINO: Performance Analytical. 24 MS. BANEGAS: Performance analytical -- what? 25 (Laughter.) PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 106 1 MS. BANEGAS: And we have this -- almost each 2 member of the Bucket Brigade has a bucket. And we use it 3 once each time when we smell something funny in our 4 neighborhood. I smelled something kind of funny once in a 5 while. And we take samples, but it's really nothing. 6 It's really nothing. We built our own buckets ourselves. 7 I'm speechless. 8 (Laughter.) 9 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: That used to happen to 10 some of us, too, right, Dr. Burke. 11 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Right. 12 (Laughter.) 13 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: I don't believe it ever 14 happened to you. 15 (Laughter.) 16 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. I'm 17 very impressed. Jeff Cook from our monitoring lab back 18 there, he would charge us probably several thousand 19 dollars for something like that. 20 (Laughter.) 21 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: You demonstrated what can be 22 done. 23 MS. BANEGAS: Thank you. 24 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Let me tell you guys one 25 other thing. I'm really impressed. I think that this may PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 107 1 be an idea bigger than what we see here, because it really 2 provides an interesting avenue to really monitor emissions 3 everywhere at a very low price probably. 4 So I have 11 other people on the Board at the 5 South Coast Air Quality Management District. But if you 6 have some of my friends there who are in CBE that go up 7 and down the State, get in touch with Dr. Wallerstein, 8 what I would like to do is see if we can put together some 9 kind of grant program in the South Coast so that you don't 10 have to worry about even taking it to a lab. 11 You can probably bring them to our lab. And if 12 you take the bucket, you take the air samples, you tell us 13 where it's at, you bring the bucket in, we've got guys in 14 the lab. We can test it and we can save that portion of 15 the money. And we might be able to put together -- 16 because I've got to tell you, seeing a person your age 17 interested in the air quality makes my heart sing. 18 And I'm sorry I can't talk to you longer, but 19 I've only got one lung, but it really does -- and it's 20 important and we have to encourage you. And I think you 21 guys have a great idea with that bucket thing. That's 22 really cool. 23 MS. BANEGAS: Thank you. 24 MS. COSENTINO: Lucia and Angelo are going to 25 talk about fence line monitors. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 108 1 MS. FLORES: I'm Lucia Flores and I'm also a 2 resident at Bayo Vista. And I'm also involved with the 3 Bucket Brigade. And recently we've been working on a 4 project. It's a fence line monitoring levee that we wrote 5 to Dale, the person from the refinery, requesting that we 6 have a screen so that we're able to have the information 7 on it for us to the residents in Bayo Vista, so that they 8 know the information that's going on, and the air that 9 they have there. And Angelo is going to talk more about 10 that. 11 MR. RAMIREZ: My name is Angelo Ramirez. I'm 12 also a resident at Bayo Vista. And I'll be talking about 13 the chemicals and how much of them there are. There's a 14 fence line on -- there's one on each side. And the fence 15 line monitor tests 300 chemicals. It tells us the name of 16 the chemicals, how much are in the chemical. It's a 17 unique system, because it's the only system like this in 18 the world. Tosco is the only refinery that tests for 300 19 chemicals. Most refineries only test for a handful. 20 We think that we have the right to know what the 21 monitor -- what the monitors are detecting, that's why we 22 want the computer screen. 23 MS. COSENTINO: I think that's all we have to 24 share with you today, but if you have any questions? 25 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much, indeed, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 109 1 for taking the time. 2 Ms. D'Adamo. 3 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Who pays for the 4 monitoring or not the monitoring but the lab results? 5 MS. COSENTINO: We have a system with the County. 6 And then we also do some of our fund raising, so we work 7 in conjunction with Contra Costa County. The Bucket 8 Brigades are also here in Richmond and Martinez and in 9 Rodeo and the Crockett areas for communities that live 10 next to refineries and are impacted by industrial 11 pollution. 12 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Have you contacted the air 13 district to see if you could actually get a monitoring 14 station? 15 MS. COSENTINO: I believe that's the station 16 you're all putting in at Crockett. We did ask for it in 17 Bayo Vista, but they chose not to put it in Bayo Vista. 18 They chose to put it on the Crockett side instead. 19 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Mr. McKinnon and then 20 Supervisor DeSaulnier. 21 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Just very quick. I was 22 really, really impressed by the job you all just did. 23 That was awesome. I mean you've been patiently waiting 24 for us to talk and talk and talk, and then you got up and 25 did a great presentation. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 110 1 And I guess the only question in my mind is when 2 is one of you going to fill this seat here, because I 3 think I'm going to be relinquishing it. 4 (Laughter.) 5 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: The sooner the better. 6 (Laughter.) 7 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Yes, Supervisor DeSaulnier. 8 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: I was only kidding, by 9 the way. I enjoy labor support. It's just my colleagues 10 when we first started to partner with CBE, the county 11 health department and our -- we have an ombudsperson who 12 we hired, Michael Kent, who used to work with CBE. Mike, 13 maybe you could raise your hand. 14 His job is just in the county health department 15 outreach to the communities to try and help them with 16 these kind of projects. 17 But not just what a great job you folks did, but 18 I will say when Unocal was doing business in that plant 19 when we went through those hearings, and Denny will be 20 reminded of this, the idea of doing this project was oh, 21 no, you'll shut us down if we do that. I don't know how 22 long we've been doing it, but it's long enough that 23 Tosco subsequently bought it. But it's helped. It's 24 successful. So it is great to see the kids get up and be 25 able to say this and take an interest, particularly people PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 111 1 from a community like Bayo Vista, which is a housing 2 project and has certainly its share of difficulties, but 3 they care about their communities and it's great. 4 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Excellent. Can I ask just 5 one question on that. When you looked at some of the 6 samples, what was the most prevalent chemical that comes 7 out of some of the samples? 8 MR. LARSON: Maybe I can take this up, since I've 9 looked at some of the samples. 10 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Yeah, it would be interesting 11 on that. 12 MR. LARSON: We can forward the results to you, 13 but I mean -- 14 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Just anything that jumps out. 15 Is there anything more prevalent? 16 MR. LARSON: I think we find Benzene and toluene 17 and xylenes, chemicals like that, and bad samples that 18 are, you know, at least six times greater than the ambient 19 concentrations in nonindustrial neighborhoods. 20 But actually the chemicals that we're the most 21 concerned about are carbon disulfides and carbonyl 22 sulfide, which are not detected by H2S monitors of which 23 we find very prevalent, and they have very bad health 24 effects. And because they're, again, generally not 25 monitored for, only when we do the grab samples in the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 112 1 bucket do they get detected. 2 And the companies aren't reporting emissions of 3 those chemicals, although it's required by law. And we're 4 very concerned about the health effects, because the 5 correlation between the health effects that are known from 6 those chemicals and what people experience are like this. 7 So we would like to see those chemicals better 8 monitored and regulated. 9 Thanks. 10 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I'm not sure where we are on 11 the witness list. Do we have Maria Brown? 12 MR. LARSON: Actually, Henry Clark is going to 13 step in for a couple of the other people. 14 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Dr. Clark, we appreciate it. 15 DR. CLARK: Good evening. My name is Henry 16 Clark. I'm the Executive Director of the West County 17 Toxics Coalition based here in Richmond, also a member of 18 the Contra Costa County Hazardous Materials Commission and 19 the Chairperson of the North Richmond Center for Health 20 that Supervisor DeSaulnier mentioned to you that we 21 successfully built in the North Richmond area. 22 Welcome to Richmond. I'm sure you've heard a lot 23 of the issues and problems and concerns that residents 24 have expressed. The West County Toxics Coalition has been 25 here since about 1980 addressing environmental justice PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 113 1 issues, not only in the Richmond/Contra Costa area, but 2 have been working with the communities throughout the 3 country. 4 We have a very bad situation here. People 5 definitely have been sick and people have died from 6 chemical exposure, and people arrive at health problems 7 that you've heard some of, that people strongly suspect is 8 related to chemical exposure. 9 Now, environmental justice has become quite 10 popular since the time that the West County Toxics 11 Coalition started back in the early eighties. You know, 12 it wasn't any ground swell of any support for any 13 environmental justice. Now, we have the federal 14 government, EPA pursuing environmental justice. We have 15 the State of California pursuing environmental justice. 16 We have the City of Richmond and Contra Costa County, the 17 Bay Area Air Quality Management District all pursuing 18 environmental justice policies and programs. 19 And that's good. That's good that people are -- 20 public agencies are beginning to get on the band wagon now 21 about environmental justice. Of course, the equation in 22 my assessment is a little turned around. The people 23 should be able to have confidence in their elected 24 officials and in their regulatory agencies to do the job 25 for them. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 114 1 After all, that's what they're getting paid for. 2 But the equation has been turned around where it appears 3 like the elected officials primarily and the agencies have 4 been following the community people rather than taking the 5 lead. And, hopefully, that situation will change and be 6 put in its right perspective. 7 But in terms of talking about environmental 8 justice, it's good to start talking about it. But as you 9 very well know, we've got a lot of laws on the books about 10 justice and democracy and all that. And it's only on 11 paper and it's not actual reality. 12 But in terms of environmental justice, the 13 communities like here in Richmond and other areas that 14 pioneered environmental justice, you know, we have ideas 15 and a vision of what it will take to get to environmental 16 justice, and while we are participating in all of those 17 efforts on a local, State as well as national level to 18 promote environmental justice. In the final end, the test 19 of whether any environmental justice prevails will be 20 clean in our communities, here in Richmond, in north 21 Richmond Porchester Village in East Oakland and East Palo 22 Alto and many other communities that are on the front 23 lines of the chemical assault as we call it. 24 We're not operating in a vacuum. Whereas, you 25 know, policy is being developed around environmental PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 115 1 justice in various different agencies and arenas, but we 2 have been dealing with issues and concerns historically, 3 for instance, here in the Richmond area in the community 4 of North Richmond, where environmental justice means to us 5 no more disproportionate impact on our communities. 6 That's what it means here. 7 I don't know if Denny Larson from CBE mentioned 8 it, but in 1989 West County Toxics Coalition and 9 Communities For a Better Environment did the study and 10 Michael Kent, when he was with CBE, was the lead 11 researcher on that, looking at the 20 largest industrial 12 operations located here in the City of Richmond, and the 13 socioeconomic characteristics of the communities 14 surrounding those facilities that were impacted by the 15 daily emissions and periodic fires and explosions. 16 Well, in every one of those 20 cases, they were 17 located in and around communities where 70 to 75 percent 18 of the population was Afro-American and 20 to 25 percent 19 of the population lived below the poverty line. 20 Now, that's what you call environmental racism, 21 environmental injustice, because we find it hard to 22 believe, by any stretch of the imagination that it just 23 happened to occur that these 20 largest industrial 24 operations releasing dangerous emissions into the 25 environment just happened to be located in those PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 116 1 communities that impact low-income people of color. 2 Now, there's various reasons. That's not 3 necessarily saying that there was any conspiracy on the 4 part of industry or there was a lot of poor planning and 5 there was lot of other reasons that made it happen. But 6 the fact is that the reality of the situation is that it 7 exists. And those people in those communities are 8 experiencing the health problems and the consequences 9 about it. 10 So rather than really sitting back and pointing 11 the finger at who did it or who bears the most 12 responsibility, we want to do something about it. We want 13 to provide health care and resources to those impacted 14 communities to address their needs as well as stop that 15 situation from continuing to occur. We don't want to see 16 more fuel added to the fire. 17 We don't want to see those communities 18 continually be dumped on, because as far as we're 19 concerned, there is more land than North Richmond or 20 Porchester Village or East Oakland or those communities 21 that are already disproportionately impacted. 22 So environmental justice means that those -- we 23 should see some relief in those communities rather than 24 increasing disproportionate impact or increasing air 25 toxics being released into the environment. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 117 1 As far as the reformulated fuel is concerned and 2 whether you take out the MTBE and put in ethanol or 3 whatever, the bottom line concern for us is this here, 4 when you started it out with the first reformulated fuel 5 project here in Richmond, this area was one of the first 6 communities that had to address the reformulated fuel 7 projects and the impacts on the community, because we have 8 the Chevron refinery here in Richmond. And it was one of 9 the first refineries that pursued the reformulated fuel 10 project. 11 And we were told well, you know, this is a great 12 project, you know, for the community and the Bay Area air. 13 It's going to clean up the air and smog precursor, the 14 nitrogen oxides and sulfuric oxides. It's just going to 15 be great for the Bay Area air. And it's the greatest 16 thing since sliced bread or mom's apple pie, and you 17 should be quite excited about this here. 18 Well, unfortunately, we weren't quite excited 19 about it at first, because when we did the research, we 20 looked to see that the project, reformulated fuel project, 21 for this area would have meant more toxic chemicals being 22 stored at the refinery, more toxic emissions being 23 released into the environment that me and my family and 24 community residents would be breathing. And so we didn't 25 think that we needed to sacrifice any more than we already PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 118 1 had for the betterment of the whole or the betterment of 2 the bay area clean air. 3 So what we have to do, unfortunately, as a 4 community people, and organizations with limited type of 5 resources, we had to then go and try to meet with Chevron 6 officials and City of Richmond officials and negotiate 7 through what we call a good neighbor agreement, some 8 conditions on this reformulated fuel project that would 9 make it more acceptable and safer for the community. 10 And that meant theoretically Chevron installing 11 or closing down all the parts of the refinery, installing 12 vapor recovery systems, repairing leaking pumps and vials 13 and other things that would make that project result in 14 zero net increase over where we were at the time that the 15 project started. 16 And that's what happened in that particular 17 project. Now, we're talking about refining out that MTBE 18 wasn't such a great idea to put into gasoline and so we're 19 talking about something else now. And here, again, you 20 know, at the moment, you seem like we are being told the 21 same story, that we should think that this is a great 22 idea, because it's going to be beneficial for the clean 23 air for us all. 24 But, you know, here, again, like the first time 25 around, we were sold that story and that really wasn't the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 119 1 case. So, you know, we don't necessarily buy a pig in a 2 poke twice. So, you know, we want to -- certainly our 3 concern here again is about clean air, but we want to 4 examine whatever is put in the gas blend to see how it 5 affects our communities, how it's going to affect the 6 surrounding communities around the refineries here in 7 other areas that will be producing this gasoline. 8 And in terms of environmental justice, if the 9 situation shows that there's going to be some increase or 10 risk to residents, then that isn't environmental justice 11 and that isn't about anything. So we would have to look 12 at, here again, making sure that there were no increased 13 disproportionate impacts from any reformulated fuel 14 project on the surrounding communities. 15 So that's the context that the West County Toxics 16 Coalition comes to look at any reformulated fuel projects 17 or the overall situation of environmental justice, period. 18 We do not have any intentions at all, you know, 19 to take any step backwards. We have organized. We have 20 struggled to this particular point to get the relief that 21 we have in terms of the community warning system that was 22 a result of the community people like West County Toxics 23 Coalition advocating for that system with the county and 24 the industry that was finally put in place, even though 25 it's still having many problems. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 120 1 But that was a result of community efforts. And 2 we don't plan on going back on environmental justice at 3 all. So when you're talking about environmental justice, 4 when you're talking about reformulated fuel projects, then 5 you need to look at the situation in terms of what exists 6 now. And whatever you're planning on doing, you need to 7 make sure that it does not increase the impact on 8 residents in our communities, because we plan to do 9 everything that we can to make sure that that doesn't 10 happen. 11 Thank you. 12 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Any questions, comments from 13 the Board? 14 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Yeah, I'd like to comment. 15 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Dr. Burke. 16 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Dr. Clark, we've never met. 17 DR. CLARK: Right. 18 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: I've been in the air 19 business -- I didn't know anything about air. Some people 20 say I still don't, but I think I know a little bit. I've 21 been in the air business seven years. You're probably the 22 best argument I've ever heard for cloning, because if I 23 had a hundred of you, I'd turn a whole lot of things 24 around, because your description was accurate, articulate 25 and insightful. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 121 1 But, you know, government is a funny thing. 2 There's a part of our government creed which says, you 3 know, all men are created equal, when they wrote the 4 Constitution. And then they had a little side document 5 that said black people were only counted at 1/25th a 6 person. So we were really, really only one-quarter of a 7 person. 8 Well, as this whole environmental justice thing 9 has transpired, it's taking government a long time to 10 really understand that all of the people count for a 11 person, every single one of them. And I've got to tell 12 you, I jumped on our staff about a month ago so bad they 13 would have been so happy if I had dropped dead that day, 14 forget the next day. 15 This evening, you know, I've got to congratulate 16 you, because the turnout we had, the people we heard 17 should be inspiring to them as well as myself. I'd like 18 to thank the Supervisor for inviting us down here. I'd 19 like to thank the staff for notifying the community in the 20 manner in which turns out the caliber and quantity of 21 people that it did. 22 But as you know, it ain't over yet. So as strong 23 as you are, you've to got keep on going. And let me tell 24 you, Mr. Calhoun is going to be supporting our cause and 25 I'm -- you know what, people get confused about it, I PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 122 1 think, when they talk about this environmental justice. 2 Environmental justice is not about black people. It's not 3 about brown people. It's not about yellow people. It's 4 not about poor white people. It's about everybody. 5 So we're all in this bucket together. And as 6 soon as people really figure that out, then the problem 7 will be solved so fast you'll never even believe it. 8 Now, the only request that I would ask our staff 9 is, you see if I get confirmed next month, which may or 10 may not happen, we all know -- stop laughing, Joe. 11 (Laughter.) 12 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: I'll be around for a minute. 13 And I would like to work with everybody on this board and 14 our staff to make sure that at our hearings wherever they 15 are, whether they're here or in Los Angeles or in 16 Sacramento that they represent the face of Los Angeles -- 17 I said Los Angeles, of California, because this audience 18 tonight truly represents the face of California. 19 And I'd just like to thank, personally, every 20 single person who came tonight who gave up of their time, 21 gave us their energy, and, quite frankly, gave me a couple 22 good ideas, which I will probably steal and give nobody 23 credit for. 24 But I'd really like to thank everybody, 25 especially you, Dr. Clark. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 123 1 DR. CLARK: Thank you, Doctor Burke. That's a 2 good point that you made in regard to environmental 3 justice. You're right, a lot of people perceive 4 environmental justice as only relating to people of color. 5 That's where the motivation of the movement actually 6 started, where we hear from. Environmental justice is 7 justice for people, period, no matter what race or what 8 color you have, period. 9 Everyone deserves a clean, safe environment to 10 live in, work and play and do whatever else that the human 11 being does regardless of what color or ethnic group that 12 you are. That's what environmental justice is about, 13 period. 14 And if we're serious about getting there, then we 15 certainly can. It's not any particular effort about 16 stopping industry or to get industry or to get nobody, 17 because I don't have time for any foolishness to be 18 wasting my time trying to get nobody other than get the 19 respect and justice that I want for myself and my family 20 and for everyone. 21 That's what it's about and that's what we have to 22 all strive for, because this planet is one planet. The 23 ecosystem is one. If the air is polluted and poisoned, 24 then we all are going to die from it, because no race or 25 particular ethnic group has no secret supply of air or PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 124 1 water or salt that they grow their food. 2 And it's all one. And if we poison our 3 environment, you know, we'll all suffer the consequences 4 like we are doing now. So, hopefully, we'll wake up to 5 that reality and get moving on some real environmental 6 justice for everyone and turn this situation around. 7 Thank you, again. 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much for 9 coming. 10 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Sir. 11 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Dr. Clark. 12 DR. CLARK: Yes. 13 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Question. 14 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Question. I really, 15 really appreciate your testimony. And as someone that has 16 represented workers with bad air, in factories, lead a 17 walkout over mustard gas being produced in a factory many 18 years ago, and I appreciate your testimony, and I 19 appreciate your stand. 20 And we are down the road going to be working on 21 this stuff. I'm real interested in you and your 22 organization's position on whether or not we should be 23 adding ethanol or we should be seeking a waiver on the 24 ethanol. 25 DR. CLARK: Well, you know, in terms of that PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 125 1 particular question, I don't, at this particular date, I 2 don't have the data or the research to say whether you 3 should seek a waiver or whether ethanol is the answer. 4 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: What data do you need? 5 DR. CLARK: Pardon me? 6 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: What data do you need? 7 DR. CLARK: Well, in terms of the information, I 8 think that I need, and here again the community people 9 need, is, you know, what type of -- say for instance 10 assuming that ethanol was added okay, well, what type of 11 emissions would we see from the use of the addition of 12 ethanol in gas? You know, how would that -- what would we 13 be exposed to that we're not exposed to now? 14 You know, would that add some new pollutant to 15 the environment that we're not exposed to now. Would it 16 be the same mix of pollutants that we're exposed to now? 17 What would the situation be? How would that then affect 18 people's health, you know? 19 The health impacts from exposure, how would that 20 even affect automobiles? You know, you talk about a lot 21 of people -- we talked about the MTBE in the gasoline. 22 Well, there was reports that it was destroying parts in, 23 especially, older cars. You know, how would that affect 24 the cars? 25 I know people that live in these same communities PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 126 1 that we're talking about environmental justice 2 communities. You know, you have a lot of older car 3 stocks, so how would that, you know, affect, you know the 4 cars -- the actual running of cars? 5 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I think actually we have a 6 lot of data, which we can get to you. We're in the 7 process of doing that, so we'll be happy to do that. 8 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Yeah. And that's, if 9 not -- if you had a position, I'm interested in that, 10 because I should take that back. If you don't have and if 11 we need to give you and the community information, then 12 that's also a fair part of the exchange. 13 DR. CLARK: That's fine. The first part of it. 14 You need to do that. 15 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: That's I think -- yeah, 16 great. 17 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you, Dr. Clark. 18 I guess we've got no more witnesses lined up 19 here. And, Mr. Kenny, do you have any additional 20 comments? 21 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Nothing further, since 22 this is -- 23 MS. LLOYD: I'm not from Richmond. I'm from 24 PUEBLO, People United For A Better Oakland, and you know, 25 we really -- PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 127 1 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: If you could come forward and 2 identify yourself. 3 MS. LLOYD: We really are -- 4 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Please, identify yourself. 5 MS. LLOYD: My name is Karleen Lloyd. I'm with 6 PUEBLO, People United for a Better Oakland. And we're 7 really looking at, at this particular time, ways that we 8 can be involved in this process of the air monitoring 9 center that is going to be placed at Lockwood Elementary 10 School. 11 But, I mean, I'm not from Richmond, but I really 12 felt that one of those monitors actually should have been 13 set up in Richmond rather than Crockett. And I don't know 14 why it didn't happen, so I'm not here to demand that or 15 ask for that or request for that, but I was wishing that 16 some of my constituents from Richmond would talk about 17 that. 18 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: What I'd suggest is that you 19 actually get together with staff on this and Mr. Kenny can 20 get the people so we can actually continue that dialogue. 21 MS. LLOYD: Yeah. So, you know, we would be 22 interested in supporting Richmond in that happening. 23 Thank you. 24 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: So hopefully staff will talk 25 about it. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 128 1 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Okay, I guess, Supervisor. 2 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Allan, I just wanted to 3 thank you and the staff. I thank Dr. Burke. I appreciate 4 your comments, although, you can't have Henry Clark. I 5 will tell you about Henry. When we dedicated that Center 6 For Health in North Richmond, we had it at a church up 7 there. And there was a group of ministers speaking and 8 then Henry. And there's nothing more intimidating for a 9 politician than to try to go in that environment, because 10 he is so articulate and so are his constituents. 11 But I appreciate us being here. I hope it was 12 worthwhile for my colleagues on the Board. One of the 13 things I think that I would like to continue to look at is 14 what Dr. Burke brought up, for communities who have these 15 kinds of issues, it's for the cumulative effect, because 16 it's not just the air quality. Most of the young people 17 who are in our juvenile hall in this county, 85 percent of 18 them come from this community. 19 It's ridiculously disproportionate. Most of the 20 people in the county jails are 85 percent from 21 misimpoverished communities. The school tests, the 22 schools in Richmond as opposed to the wealthier 23 communities in Lafyette and Blackhawk and Orinda. It's no 24 secret the test scores here are much different than they 25 are in those wealthy communities. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 129 1 So when we act in our confined space, we may add 2 200 trucks to the road, but it's the accumulation of 3 things that we really have to think about. And one last 4 comment, in terms of what Matt said, not just about the 5 community, but I can tell you that my experience as an 6 elected official, there is nothing more difficult than 7 going to a funeral of a constituent who has died 8 needlessly. 9 And I think of specifically the employees in the 10 Tosco/Avon, which is my supervisorial district, there are 11 five men who died there. And if you read the CalOSHA 12 report, there was no reason for them to die. They should 13 be alive today. And to go to funerals and to walk where 14 they walked and to see the documentation that CalOSHA and 15 the air district had asked staff facility to do that was 16 largely ignored. 17 There are things that we can do here that can 18 help the benefit of those things. And I think acting in 19 concert with sister agencies and with local agencies and 20 with the federal agencies, we can do things that cannot 21 only make our air cleaner, but make for a safer and juster 22 State of California in many different ways. 23 So I think it was really important to look at 24 those cumulative effects and do what we can to bring other 25 agencies and regulators to the Legislature and the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 130 1 Governor, bring them to be a force to be part of these 2 kind of issues. 3 So for me, it wasn't a long trip to be here, but 4 I think I learned quite a bit about being here with you 5 and I hope you felt the same way. 6 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Well, again, I'd like to 7 bring the meeting to a close. It's getting towards 8:00 8 o'clock, so everyone, in fact, can go home to families and 9 friends. People have got to catch some planes. But I 10 would also like to thank you, Supervisor and the Council 11 here for, again, the excellent support we had. And also 12 the excellent turnout from the community. 13 This is the second time this week we went down to 14 a budget oversight hearing in Dr. Burke's district Pocoima 15 this last Tuesday. And I came away tonight with the same 16 impression of humility and adequacy. We look, as I said, 17 at the beginning and we have a budget of well over $100 18 million. We have a staff of anywhere between 1,100, 1,200 19 people. And yet when you hear the issues that are raised, 20 both at Pocoima and here, I come away and say it's just 21 not enough. 22 And I know it will never be enough. But on the 23 other hand, I think it's very touching to hear the issues 24 that come up. And people are not asking for unreasonable 25 things. They're asking for information. They're asking PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 131 1 for actions from all of us that can make a difference. 2 And they're in a position sometimes that they maybe 3 cannot. 4 So we made a commitment this week with 5 Assemblyman Cardenas, Assemblyman Firebaugh that we, in 6 fact, are making the implementation of AB -- the Hilda 7 Solis bill, on environmental justice a key part of our 8 everyday activities. 9 And, again, tonight we can see that that is a 10 very real need that we have. So with that, I would like 11 to thank our staff, all the staff who came here. I think, 12 again, it's a commitment and a dedication. 13 And also it's, in some ways, it's an inadequate 14 feeling. It's also an uplifting feeling to feel that as a 15 body, as a board, we are actually in a position to make a 16 difference. And I appreciate all the comments of my 17 colleagues here that we can go back, talk to our friends 18 in the Legislature, and I know that we have the Governor's 19 support on this. He is being tremendously supportive of 20 what we're trying to do in making sure that, in fact, the 21 rights of all Californians to clean air are carried out. 22 We can be supportive as we move through with 23 super clean legislation. And then the comment earlier 24 about the power issue and the air issue, I'd like to 25 ensure the people there that Secretary Hickox, the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 132 1 Governor, and Mr. Kenny and Mr. Scheible will be 2 working -- and Kahtleen Witherspoon will be working there 3 greatly to make sure that, in fact, we're not compromising 4 air quality to keep the lights on. 5 It's a very challenging time for all of us, but I 6 see I'm delighted that we have a Governor who's fighting 7 for all of those. And, again, on this particular issue, 8 when we signed the Solis bill and making sure that we 9 carry this out, I think, it gives us great pride that this 10 is actually happening. 11 Let me say, Supervisor DeSaulnier, I hope that 12 you will invite us, again, to come here and not in a 13 couple of years, but, you know, maybe in a reasonable 14 period of time, so we can come back and hear the progress 15 and we can come back to hear what's going on before the 16 end of 2002, so, in fact, we can see the progress that's 17 been made. 18 Thank you very much. 19 MS. SUSAG: Can I just ask a question, because I 20 think one of the things we've learned about working with 21 government is you've got to kind of nail them down in 22 terms of what is actually your time line, if you want to 23 work together on some of the issues around environmental 24 justice, some of the stuff that was brought up in 25 recommendations? How do we know that's going to happen PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 133 1 and it's not just talk tonight? 2 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Well, I can assure you that 3 we've already started. And if you want to talk to any of 4 my staff out there, any of -- Mr. Kenny, any of his staff 5 we're ready to go. So it's not waiting. We've made that 6 commitment. So, however, we can work with you. 7 MS. SUSAG: How is the community involved in 8 that, I guess? 9 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: We actually have a 10 number of outreach activities we're doing. Dr. Linda 11 Murchison is heading those up and one of the things we 12 need to do is essentially take the names of all the 13 participants tonight. And we will, in fact, continue to 14 notify you of what we're doing. 15 We are basically having essentially continued 16 discussions about some environmental justice guidelines 17 that we're trying to develop, talking tonight about some 18 of the things the Board would like the staff to follow up 19 on, specifically greater enforcement on refineries, fence 20 line monitoring. 21 Supervisor DeSaulnier talked about the fact that 22 he would like to see us pull together a joint effort with 23 a number of agencies. I can assure you that I'd probably 24 begin having discussions internally, at least, tomorrow. 25 And probably then proceed to at least public discussions PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 134 1 as quickly as we possibly can. 2 I'm a little hesitant to say next week, but, you 3 know, we will try to do this within a month, so that we 4 can begin to essentially make sure that we're talking to 5 people and getting input and then proceeding from there. 6 MS. LLOYD I think some of the questions is how 7 to turn some of the suggestions that you actually made 8 today into action items. So one of the things that you 9 talked about is to do and trade a more effective system by 10 working with other regulatory agencies that have various 11 types of jurisdictions over this process involved in this 12 process of reduction. So I think that's one of the things 13 that we'd like to see as an action item. 14 I think the other thing that we'd like to see as 15 an action item are things concerning environmental 16 justice. I mean one of the things that Henry Clark talked 17 about was like how do we implement environmental justice 18 in the process. And one of the things that you asked a 19 question about, what do you see as what should we do. 20 And what he, in essence, said is, you know, it's 21 up to you as an agency not to look at the impact of the 22 finished product, but look at the product in its process 23 of being produced, and what is the impact on the community 24 there. 25 When you begin to look at what the impact of the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 135 1 product or the process of the product of the people who 2 are near those refineries, then you're looking at 3 environmental justice. And I think those are things that 4 we like to see today as something that turns these into 5 action items, you know, and not like something that, you 6 know, we talk about and we read and we nod our heads, but 7 what are the processes that you're going to take tonight 8 that turn those things and things that are, you know, are 9 concrete, you know, feasible solutions to, like, looking 10 at air pollution reduction, expected in communities of 11 color. I think that's what we really want to hear in your 12 summary. 13 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Mr. Kenny. 14 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: One of the things I 15 would suggest I thought Dr. Clark essentially probably 16 simplified the question, it was eloquent, as I've heard it 17 simplified, on what EJ actually means. And that is 18 essentially the question of what does a regulatory, what 19 does any proposal that essentially we present to you as a 20 Board, mean to a local community, not just simply what 21 does it mean in terms of the overall objective, but does 22 it mean to local communities? 23 And I think the one thing that you will see us do 24 as a staff is present to you in all our staff reports in 25 the future, essentially, that question raised and an PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 136 1 attempt to answer that question. 2 And so, I mean, in terms of something concrete 3 that I think we can commit to right at this moment and 4 that is something I think we will try to look at. Now, 5 it's going to be a hard question to answer, because what 6 we have to do is try to figure out, you know, what it 7 means throughout the State of California to a number of 8 different communities. But I think what we're going to do 9 is make that effort. 10 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: That obviously could be a 11 wonderful advancement. 12 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Mr. Chairman. 13 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Mr. McKinnon. 14 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Yeah, I'm real interested 15 in us, at least at some point, having a real straight 16 discussion about how we do the community meetings. We're 17 a part-time Board that meets once a month and often meets 18 in Sacramento. And now we're starting to meet in the 19 communities. We're starting to have meetings at night. I 20 think it's a great thing. 21 And it certainly started some time ago in the ZEV 22 review, but what I'm a little worried about is that we say 23 well, we'll be back here in a year. This is a big State. 24 What is the, you know -- what's the straight scoop about 25 how we do this? PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 137 1 I mean, for instance, one of the most articulate 2 speakers here came from Oakland tonight and said, you 3 know, I'm sorry, I'm not from Richmond, so somehow I think 4 maybe what we need to do is when we do move around, make 5 sure that it's clear that when we're in the Bay Area, it 6 means the whole Bay Area. And when we're in Los Angeles, 7 it means, you know, at least a large part of Los Angeles, 8 so that people feel welcome and so that we can 9 realistically commit to come back at least close. 10 In other words, if we come to Oakland next time, 11 certainly people from Richmond can come see us and say, 12 hey, what did you do about XYZ that we talked about a year 13 ago, right. 14 So that's, I mean -- 15 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I think that's really an 16 excellent point to keep us honest. And I think clearly 17 we're going to maybe ask staff to look at some options for 18 the potential time frame so when we say we don't over 19 promise and we really use it, that's a very good point. 20 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Since we have addresses for 21 everybody here, I've got an idea which, you know, probably 22 won't fly, but I think it's important. 23 When you talk about your budget, you talk about 24 $100 million. It's not enough money. What we ought to 25 do, I think, is put together an environmental justice hit PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 138 1 list, take it to the Legislature and say look, if you're 2 really not just blowing smoke, if you really believe in 3 environmental justice, here's what we need to do. 4 Now, if you want to do it, let's do it, but don't 5 put me out in front of everybody talking about are we 6 going to do it and then don't, you know, don't give me any 7 bullets for the gun. 8 So the first thing you do is you've got to have 9 staff throughout the State go to all the air districts, 10 have them do their environmentally sensitive evaluations, 11 put together a list, put together how much it costs, take 12 it to the Legislature, and then all of us go and say hey, 13 if you don't give us the money, you're not serious about 14 it. 15 That's the way I think you get it done. And 16 there is enough people who now -- the education process in 17 this State is so far ahead of the rest of the country, 18 it's incredible. But it's so far behind where it needs to 19 be, it's incredible, but it is startling. So I think what 20 we have the opportunity to do is to increase the speed of 21 the educational process. 22 I had one other suggestion, which is really going 23 to get me thrown out of here. This body, as Matt says, 24 meets once a month. And let me tell you, between the AQMD 25 and the Fire Commission and, you know, the tenants PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 139 1 association, and all the other things I'm doing, once a 2 month is killing me to get here, but I love it when I get 3 here. 4 What maybe we should do is replicate -- don't 5 jump out of your chair, Mark, replicate what some of the 6 local air districts do and conceive a committee system for 7 board members. Now, see, Mark grabbed his collar and 8 started shoving his tonsils down his neck. 9 (Laughter.) 10 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: But let me tell you, the 11 reason I suggested that is that 41 percent of the 12 population of the State has that already. And it's 13 amazing how it raises the sensitivities of board members 14 when they're involved on a regular basis with specific 15 issues which concern community, industry, all the pieces 16 of the puzzle. 17 Now, I understand that they used to have it a 18 long time ago at ARB and they did away with it. 19 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I think we need -- Dr. Burke 20 on the first one, I think -- I guess we have to be careful 21 approaching the Legislature. It might be nice as a trial 22 balloon during your confirmation hearing to raise that and 23 see -- 24 (Laughter.) 25 BOARD MEMBER BURKE: Don't laugh, you'll miss me PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 140 1 when I'm gone. 2 (Laughter.) 3 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: But I think on the other 4 issue, clearly, I think it comes down to a discussion 5 there and how we run that. And I think that as the years 6 have proceeded different Chairpeople have looked at 7 different ways, and certainly that's worth considering. 8 I'm conscious, though, of the hour, and I know 9 that some people have to get out of here. And I would 10 like to bring that to a close. 11 And, again, we thank you. 12 Supervisor DeSaulnier. 13 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: For the people in the 14 audience who are worried about follow up, maybe what I'd 15 offer as the Bay Area's representative and somebody who is 16 closely linked to where you live, we can follow up with 17 the local air district and come back, rather than wait on 18 the whole Board, come back. 19 And we can come back with CARB staff, myself, our 20 air district, Henry Clark as co-chair of the air 21 district's environmental task force. And we need to have 22 that meeting very soon in this community and in other 23 affected communities. 24 So I think in terms of follow up, I think that's 25 our next step. This is our first step. And I'll promise PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 141 1 to you that we'll work to get back out here within the 2 next three months and we'll continue the process and look 3 for action items that you asked for. 4 MS. LLOYD: Is there someone that we can actually 5 meet with to assure that those things are happening? 6 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Yes. I'd be happy to 7 meet with you right after the meeting. 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. With 9 that, I'd officially like to bring to a close the February 10 22nd meeting of the Air Resources Board. 11 Thank you all. 12 (Thereupon the Air Resources Board meeting 13 was adjourned at 8:05 p.m.) 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 142 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 I, JAMES F. PETERS, a Certified Shorthand 3 Reporter of the State of California, and Registered 4 Professional Reporter, do hereby certify: 5 That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 6 foregoing California Air Resources Board meeting was 7 reported in shorthand by me, James F. Peters, a Certified 8 Shorthand Reporter of the State of California, and 9 thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 10 I further certify that I am not of counsel or 11 attorney for any of the parties to said meeting nor in any 12 way interested in the outcome of said meeting. 13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 14 this 5th day of March, 2001. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 23 Certified Shorthand Reporter 24 License No. 10063 25 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345