BOARD MEETING STATE OF CALIFORNIA AIR RESOURCES BOARD RAMADA PLAZA HOTEL WHITCOMB BALLROOM 1231 MARKET STREET SAN FRANCISCO, CALIFORNIA FRIDAY, JULY 27 , 2001 8:30 A.M. JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER LICENSE NUMBER 10063 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 ii APPEARANCES BOARD MEMBERS Dr. Allan Lloyd, Chairperson Mrs. Barbara Riordan Ms. Dorene D'Adamo Supervisor Mark DeSaulnier Professor Hugh Friedman Mr. Matthew McKinnon Supervisor Ron Roberts STAFF Mr. Mike Kenny, Executive Officer Mr. Tom Cackette, Deputy Executive Officer Mr. Mike Scheible, Deputy Executive Officer Ms. Lynn Terry, Deputy Executive Office Mr. Don Ames Mr. Chuck Beddow Mr. Gregory Binder, Acting Chief, Mobile Source Enforcement Division Mr. Dan Donahoue, Chief, Emissions Assessment Branch Mr. Paul Jacobs, Acting Chief, Enforcement Division PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 iii INDEX Page Item 01-4-2 1 Executive Officer Kenny 1 Staff Presentation 2 Questions and Answers 25 Closed Session 42 Item 01-6-7 42 Executive Officer Kenny 43 Staff Presentation 44 Dr. Ronald Churchill 57 Mr. Charles Rea 61 Mr. Mark Harrison 64 Mr. Eugene Cunningham 66 Mr. Adam Harper 70 Mr. Steve Cortner 75 Mr. Hatler 76 Mr. Terry Trent 79 Mr. Mark Pawlicki 80 Ms. Janna Scott 84 Mr. Jon Morgan 88 Mr. Bob Reynolds 88 Mr. James Wagoner 97 Ms. Alice Howard 99 Mr. Joe Vargas 99 Ms. Toni Johnson 100 Mr. Earl Withycombe 100 Ms. Melissa Vargas 102 Adjournment 111 Repoter's Certificate 112 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 1 1 PROCEEDINGS 2 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I would like to remind anyone 3 in the audience who wishes to testify to today's agenda 4 item to please sign up with the clerk of the Board. Also, 5 if you have a written statement, please give 30 copies, if 6 you can, to the Board Clerk. 7 The first item on the agenda today is 01-4-2, 8 public meeting to consider an update on enforcement 9 activities. 10 Mr. Kenny, would you please introduce the item. 11 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Yes, I will. Thank 12 you, Dr. Lloyd and members of the Board. As you well 13 know, the Air Resources Board maintains a rigorous 14 regulatory agenda in its quest to attain the air quality 15 standards necessary for the health of California citizens. 16 However, the measures adopted by the Board are 17 only effective if and to the extent they are put into 18 practice. To this end, the Board devotes a significant 19 level of resources to assisting affected individuals and 20 businesses in complying with the regulations. 21 However, there are always those who, through 22 inadvertence or intention, fail to comply with the 23 regulations. And to address this problem, this Board has 24 established an enforcement presence with our program of 25 audits, inspections and special investigations. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 2 1 These important ARB enforcement activities are 2 now housed in the recently created enforcement division. 3 And with that, I'd like to ask that Mr. Paul Jacobs, the 4 Acting Chief for the Enforcement Division provide a brief 5 overview of those activities. 6 Paul. 7 (Thereupon an overhead presentation was 8 presented as follows.) 9 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: Thank 10 you, Mr. Kenny. Good Morning, Chairman Lloyd and members 11 of the Board. This morning my staff and I will provide 12 you with an update on the ARB's Enforcement program. 13 --o0o-- 14 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: The 15 purpose of the ARB's new formed Enforcement Division is to 16 ensure that the regulatory programs created by your Board 17 achieve the intended emission reductions necessary to 18 protect public health and the environment. This requires 19 a committed effort of comprehensive and consistent 20 application of air pollution control laws, rules and 21 regulations. 22 Our goal is an enforcement program that 23 encourages compliance by all regulated sources and serves 24 as a credible deterrent, the carrot and stick, if you 25 will. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 3 1 --o0o-- 2 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: This 3 ensures that those individuals and businesses that do 4 comply with air quality regulations do not have to carry 5 more of their share of the burden and do not suffer a 6 competitive disadvantage by virtue of their good 7 citizenship. 8 Next slide. 9 --o0o-- 10 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: The 11 enforcement program is one component of the ARB's Air 12 Pollution Control Program. Working with other air quality 13 agencies and sister State agencies whose activities 14 include impacts on air quality, we develop plans to clean 15 up our states's air and keep it clean. These plans are 16 blueprints for achieving and maintaining the State and 17 federal ambient air quality standards. 18 This Board adopts regulations to control sources 19 of air pollution subject to our direct control, such as 20 mobile sources, fuels and consumer products. Once those 21 regulations are in place, it is the job of our Enforcement 22 Division, working closely with other program divisions, to 23 ensure that they are fully and properly implemented and 24 enforced. 25 This phase ensures that the air quality benefits PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 4 1 set forth in these regulations are achieved and preserved. 2 This is a three-part approach that Mike Kenny likes to 3 describe as plan it, adopt it and preserve it. 4 Next slide. 5 --o0o-- 6 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: The 7 enforcement process begins with field work. Having 8 inspectors and investigators out in the regulated 9 community creates an affirmative presence, which is a 10 critical component of compliance assurance. 11 The process of identifying noncompliance or 12 potential noncompliant situations and taking swift action 13 to bring sources back into compliance or to avoid 14 noncompliance all together, serves the purpose of 15 protecting air quality and is our primary focus. 16 In addition, to the typical inspection activities 17 that represent the majority of work we do on a day-to-day 18 basis, we discover potential problems by listening and 19 investigating complaints from the public, talking with the 20 regulated sources, participating on task forces with other 21 air quality agencies, other State agencies who are 22 involved in related enforcement activities, and also other 23 law enforcement agencies. 24 The inspectors are supported by investigators in 25 the strategic environmental investigations and enforcement PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 5 1 section who carry out the more complex lengthy or 2 difficult investigations. And also are supported by 3 attorneys from the ARB's Office of Legal Affairs. In 4 total, this process provides an effective mechanism for 5 ensuring the preserved charge is met. 6 I would now like to introduce Mr. Gregory Binder, 7 who is the Manager of our Mobile Source Enforcement 8 Section. Mr. Binder is also currently serving as the 9 Acting Chief for the Mobile Source Enforcement Branch. 10 Greg will provide an overview of our mobile source program 11 and will highlight some of our interesting cases. 12 Following Mr. Binder's presentation, Mr. Chuck 13 Beddow, who is currently serving as the Acting Chief of 14 our Fuels and Stationary Source Enforcement Branch, will 15 provide an overview of our fuels consumer products and 16 asbestos enforcement programs and will also highlight some 17 of our more interesting cases. 18 Greg. 19 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 20 BINDER: Thank you, Mr. Jacobs. And good morning Chairman 21 and Members of the Board. 22 (Thereupon and overhead presentation was 23 presented as follows.) 24 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 25 BINDER: Mobile sources are one area that the ARB has PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 6 1 direct enforcement authority. And it's my pleasure today 2 to give you an overview of our mobile source enforcement 3 programs and some of the current cases we are 4 investigating. 5 With the large scope of on-road and of-road 6 mobile source regulations, our challenge in enforcement is 7 to thoroughly understand these regulations and ensure they 8 achieve the anticipated emission reductions and maintain a 9 level playing field for all stakeholders. 10 --o0o-- 11 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 12 BINDER: One of our major efforts is to ensure that 13 California Certified Engine families remain in compliance 14 throughout their useful life. This slide illustrates the 15 programs the ARB has in place to ensure compliance of the 16 motor vehicle or engine during its typical life cycle. 17 It all starts out with certification. Most new 18 vehicles and engines for both on- and off-road use must be 19 certified by the ARB as meeting California's exhaust and 20 evaporative emission standards under ability requirements. 21 The manufacturer demonstrates this by providing a test of 22 demonstration and durability vehicles. 23 We move on to audit. The new vehicle and engine 24 audit process ensures that each certified engine family 25 complies with the applicable emission standards at the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 7 1 time of production. Compliance is verified through 2 manufacturer quarterly audit test reports and Title 13 3 compliance testing. 4 New and used car dealerships and fleets are 5 inspected statewide to verify certification emissions 6 labeling and other new vehicle requirements and to prevent 7 emissions control tampering. We have end-use compliance. 8 The ARB conducts in-use testing of consumer owned vehicles 9 to ensure compliance with emission standards over the 10 vehicle's useful life. 11 Over the last 15 years, the in-use testing 12 program has been instrumental in encouraging manufacturers 13 to increase the durability of their emission control 14 systems. 15 We move on to smog check. Although smog check is 16 operated by the Department of Consumer Affairs, Bureau of 17 Automotive Repair, the ARB's enforcement programs have a 18 great deal of synergy with smog check. As an example, one 19 of our primary indicators of possible illegal vehicle 20 importation is the certificate of noncompliance. 21 This document is sent to the ARB by smog check 22 stations throughout California any time a new federally 23 certified vehicle undergoes a smog check. During a 24 typical month, we review about 200 of these certificates 25 of noncompliance. We typically investigate about 20 or 30 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 8 1 of those that were issues to car dealers and fleets and 2 about half of those actually result in enforcement cases. 3 Finally, we end up with scrap. All good things 4 come to an end and the vehicle is recycled into other 5 products or a new cleaner vehicle. 6 --o0o-- 7 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 8 BINDER: This slide outlines our major enforcement areas. 9 All regulated on- and off-road engines are required to be 10 certified for sale or use in California. Likewise, all 11 new motor vehicles a required to be certified for sale or 12 use in California. And the definition in California of a 13 new vehicle is less than 7,500 odometer miles. 14 Gray market vehicles do not meet California or US 15 EPA emission requirements. And equally important, they 16 usually do not meet US DOT safety requirements. Any 17 after-market part that may affect emissions, must be 18 covered by a valid ARB executive order for any given 19 application. If not, it must be clearly designated for 20 off-highway competition or racing use only. 21 All heavy-duty vehicles that operate on 22 California roads or highways are subject to small capacity 23 and anti-tampering inspections. And violations of ARB 24 emission standards or certification requirements are 25 subject to voluntary or mandated recall. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 9 1 --o0o-- 2 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 3 BINDER: This slide illustrates the on-road categories 4 that are currently regulated. Note the large number of 5 engine families certified last year. For the first time 6 on record, the number of passenger car and light- and 7 medium-duty vehicles has exceeded two million in sales. 8 All of these engine families and the individual units sold 9 fall under ARB compliance and enforcement programs. 10 --o0o-- 11 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 12 BINDER: The off-road and on-road and utility engine 13 categories are more recent additions to our mobile source 14 program. With over 600 engine families certified last 15 year and large annual sales, the off-road categories have 16 added a whole new responsibility to our enforcement 17 programs. 18 Due to the high volume of product and the 19 potential emissions impact a large portion of our 20 enforcement resources have been focused in this area. 21 --o0o-- 22 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 23 BINDER: This slide is a rather extreme example, but it 24 does illustrate how things can go wrong. This particular 25 product was a log splitter sold by a large retail store in PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 10 1 the Sacrament area. Although the label on the shipping 2 box clearly identified the product as not legal for sale 3 in California, it was sold to a California customer. 4 We tried very hard to prevent illegal products 5 from reaching the retail level, because the desire to sell 6 products often overrides even the most obvious labeling. 7 --o0o-- 8 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 9 BINDER: This slide shows some of the types of off-road 10 products that we have or are currently investigating as 11 enforcement cases. The off-road category is the one area 12 that we're focusing a large portion of our enforcement 13 resources. The reason for this is these engines can be 14 very dirty. And unlike automobiles which can be recalled, 15 once illegal engines are sold to the consumer, it is 16 virtually impossible to track or recall the products. 17 We continually conduct factory audits of small 18 engine manufacturers to verify their compliance process. 19 And, in addition, we often select an engine family for 20 Title 13 compliance testing to ensure emissions 21 compliance. 22 --o0o-- 23 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 24 BINDER: As shown in this slide, all new motor vehicles 25 and most engines that are offered for sale in California PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 11 1 are uniquely identified with an emissions label that 2 states, "The vehicle or engine meets California emission 3 requirements and is certified for sale in California." 4 A vehicle or engine that meets only federal 5 emission requirements is known as 49 State. A California 6 resident, business or fleet may not purchase, sell or use 7 a new 49 State vehicle in California. And by statute a 8 new motor vehicle is defined has having less than 7,500 9 miles. There are some exemptions for individual 10 California residents. However, in general, California 11 certification requirements are vigorously enforced by the 12 ARB. Our enforcement actions range from manufacturers and 13 car dealers and fleets to rental companies that use new 49 14 State vehicles for intrastate rentals. 15 Last year, our section settled 41 smaller illegal 16 vehicle cases totaling $114,000 in penalties. In 17 addition, in almost every case, the illegal vehicles were 18 removed from California, which is our primary objective in 19 all of our settlements. 20 --o0o-- 21 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 22 BINDER: All on-road motorcycles greater than 50 CCs are 23 required to be certified. Unlike the federal program, 24 California regulations require evaporative controls. This 25 slide shows a typical evaporative control system label PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 12 1 required on all California product. We refer to these 2 schematic labels in the field to ensure all the 3 evaporative controls are present and correctly installed. 4 We have initiated several enforcement actions 5 against dealers and manufacturers that have removed or 6 disabled the evaporative controls. The picture on the 7 left is a typical custom Harley clone motorcycle. In the 8 last few years, many small manufacturers with productions 9 of ten to 1,000 units per year have popped up producing 10 these types of motorcycles. Unfortunately, many of these 11 manufacturers have not certified their products. We have 12 investigated and settled many such cases and several 13 others are currently being litigated by the Attorney 14 General's office. 15 During our inspections, we do try to do all we 16 can to assist these manufacturers comply with the 17 regulations. This includes providing certificate packages 18 in the field and helping them make connections with the 19 appropriate ARB staff. 20 --o0o-- 21 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 22 BINDER: All on-road motorcycles and ATVs are required to 23 be certified as compliant with California emission 24 standards or as noncompliant. A noncompliant vehicle must 25 have a C or a 3 in the eight digits of the VIN. This PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 13 1 triggers DMV to issue a limited use red sticker 2 registration. 3 This slide shows a typical off-road motorcycle on 4 the left and a California emissions label on the right. 5 During our field inspections, we use the information on 6 these labels along with our certification records to 7 determine compliance. We currently have several 8 enforcement actions against manufacturers and in quarters 9 of uncertified motorcycles. We also have cases against 10 manufacturers who have failed to VIN code their 11 noncompliant motorcycles correctly, allowing those 12 vehicles to receive unlimited use green stickers. 13 --o0o-- 14 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 15 BINDER: Gray market vehicles are not intended for sale in 16 the United States and typically do not meet US or 17 California emission requirements or Department of 18 Transportation safety standards. To import one of these 19 vehicles legally is an elaborate and expensive process 20 that often leads to circumvention of the law. 21 The current demand is for high performance cars. 22 And the left side of this slide shows a highly sought 23 after high performance car built by a major Japanese 24 manufacturer not intended for sale in the US. Many other 25 examples also come from other non-US manufacturers. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 14 1 The right side of this slide illustrates a case 2 that we investigated involving the California sale and 3 titling of brand new old style VW Bugs built in Mexico for 4 non-US sale. The importer claimed these vehicles are 5 remanufactured and he was working on establishing a 6 network of dealers in California and throughout the US. 7 We put a stop to his plans. And this case is 8 currently being litigated by the Attorney General's 9 office. 10 --o0o-- 11 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 12 BINDER: This slide shows some typical after-market parts, 13 including exhaust, super chargers, computer chips and 14 in-take systems. Any emissions related part that is not 15 an OEM replacement must be covered by an executive order. 16 We do enforce these requirements in the field. 17 And along with enforcement, we conduct extensive outreach 18 at trade association shows that represent manufacturers 19 from all over the world. The feedback has been very 20 positive, and, in fact, some manufacturers have stated 21 that having an ARB executive order has actually increased 22 their worldwide market share. 23 Another area related to after-market parts that 24 we are supporting is the growing crack down on street 25 racing by the California Highway Patrol and local Sheriff PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 15 1 and police departments. The ARB often receives requests 2 from law enforcement to assist their officers in special 3 operations to prevent street racing. 4 During these operations, ARB staff provide 5 emissions control expertise to officers who issue the 6 citations under Vehicle Code Section 27156. 7 Citing drivers and spectators for emissions 8 control violations and illegal after-market parts has 9 proven to be a very strong deterrent. In addition to 10 paying a fine, the owners are required to bring their 11 vehicles into compliance, which is often a very expensive 12 and painful endeavor. 13 We often follow up on leads obtained during these 14 operations to investigate possible illegal activities by 15 after-market part manufacturers, retailers and installers. 16 --o0o-- 17 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 18 BINDER: The ARB, in cooperation with the California 19 Highway Patrol, has been testing heavy-duty trucks and 20 buses for excessive smoke and tampering since 1991. Every 21 heavy-duty vehicle traveling in California, including 22 those registered in other states and foreign countries, is 23 subject to inspection and testing. 24 --o0o-- 25 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 16 1 BINDER: Although only two percent of California's 2 vehicles are heavy-duty, they produce about 30 percent of 3 the oxides of nitrogen and 65 percent of the particulate 4 emissions attributed to motor vehicles. 5 --o0o-- 6 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 7 BINDER: This film clip is an example of the SAE J-1667 8 snap acceleration test used to determine small capacity. 9 The test is used at California Highway Patrol weigh 10 stations, US Mexico ports of entry and at random roadside 11 locations throughout California, including EJ. 12 --o0o-- 13 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 14 BINDER: This slide shows the heavy-duty enforcement 15 statistics since the program resumed on June 1st, 1998. 16 Both the failure rate and the rate of citation appeals 17 continue to decline. This is very encouraging, because it 18 appears that truck and fleet owners are focusing more 19 effort on proper maintenance, which directly improves fuel 20 economy and reduces diesel particulate emissions, which 21 are a toxic air contaminant. 22 --o0o-- 23 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 24 BINDER: We now have full-time inspection teams at both 25 the Otay Mesa and Calexico commercial vehicle ports of PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 17 1 entry. This slide shows the statistics of our enforcement 2 efforts at the US-Mexico border. 3 Initially, the failure rate was around 50 4 percent. However, with full-time effort at the ports of 5 entry, this has since dropped to about ten percent, which 6 is close to the average statewide failure rate. 7 --o0o-- 8 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 9 BINDER: And now I'd like to turn over the presentation to 10 Mr. Chuck Beddow. 11 MR. BEDDOW: Thank you, Greg. 12 I'm going to talk about the other side of the 13 enforcement program, which is the stationary source 14 enforcement programs. 15 --o0o-- 16 MR. BEDDOW: The Air Resources Board has primary 17 authority for four stationary source enforcement 18 activities, and those are motor vehicle fuels quality, 19 consumer products, emissions, cargo tank, and asbestos 20 demolition. 21 --o0o-- 22 MR. BEDDOW: On the motor vehicle fuels 23 enforcement side, just to give you an idea of the universe 24 of fuels that are out there, there's approximately 14 25 billion gallons of gasoline that have burned each year or PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 18 1 that converts to about 35 million gallons a day or 2 approximately one gallon per capita per day in California. 3 Also, approximately 2.3 billion gallons of diesel 4 fuel are burned each year, and these are produced or 5 stored at 17 refineries, eight imports facilities, 6 approximately 84 bulk terminals and distributed by 13,000 7 or 14,000 service stations. And my fuel inspectors test 8 approximately ten percent of the fuel that's out there per 9 year. 10 --o0o-- 11 MR. BEDDOW: Basically, the way we do our fuel 12 inspections is normally it starts out with a sampling 13 program where we go to terminals and refineries and 14 service stations and every point in the distribution 15 chain. 16 This slide shows one of my inspectors sampling a 17 tank at a terminal, where he actually dips the tank and 18 comes up with a sample of the fuel. 19 --o0o-- 20 MR. BEDDOW: And after we get the samples of the 21 gasoline and the diesel fuel for which we get at every 22 point of the distribution chain, as I mentioned, the 23 refineries, the terminals, the service stations and the 24 imports facilities and also sometimes at the border, we 25 bring these samples to our mobile fuels laboratory, where PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 19 1 the samples are analyzed during the evening by chemists 2 from the monitoring laboratory division. 3 This bus is a 1973 old Greyhound bus. It's being 4 replaced. Right now, we're outfitting a new bus, which 5 will contain all the latest emission controls on it. 6 And during that evening the samples are analyzed 7 and approximately 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning, if there's 8 a violation, I'll get a phone call and we'll act on the 9 violation and stop the illegal sales, normally, the next 10 day. 11 --o0o-- 12 MR. BEDDOW: On the consumer products side, 13 there's -- just to give you an idea of the universe of 14 products that are out there, we estimate there's about 600 15 million units of total inventory of regulated consumer 16 products in California at this time. That encompasses 93 17 different product categories of which the largest emission 18 source categories are hair sprays, aerosol paints, 19 windshield washer fluids, air fresheners and insecticides. 20 Although, we do look at each one of these 21 categories, we tend to target our enforcement activities 22 on the higher emitting categories. And we estimate that 23 approximately seven percent of the inventory is inspected 24 per year. 25 --o0o-- PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 20 1 MR. BEDDOW: This slide shows one of my 2 inspectors at a retail facility where he checks for proper 3 date coding. And some of the samples he will pick up and 4 take back to our laboratory in Sacramento where the 5 monitoring laboratory division there will actually analyze 6 the sample. And if there's a problem, we will develop a 7 case, just as with Greg, we'll turn that case over to the 8 legal office for settlement or prosecution. 9 --o0o-- 10 MR. BEDDOW: Cargo tanks is another area of 11 enforcement for which the Air Resources Board has primary 12 statewide authority. There's approximately 6,300 cargo 13 tanks out there. And what we do is we go out and we audit 14 the people who actually certify these tanks, the cargo 15 tank testers and we also inspect the cargo tanks generally 16 at terminals ourselves, where we run an actual test where 17 the cargo tanks are pressurized with nitrogen gas and 18 checked for leaks. 19 We also do some random testing of cargo tanks in 20 cooperation with source tests with our compliance division 21 source test people. And we estimate, at this time, that 22 we're looking at approximately five percent of the cargo 23 tanks annually. 24 --o0o-- 25 MR. BEDDOW: Finally, we have the asbestos PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 21 1 enforcement program. This is a program for which ARB does 2 the asbestos enforcement for 16 nondelegated districts in 3 California. These are generally smaller districts in the 4 northeastern corridor of the State from Tehama on down, 5 and also Imperial County. 6 And we receive approximately 1,000 demolition 7 renovation notifications each year. And we follow up with 8 inspections on approximately 35 percent of those. And as 9 I mentioned, we do focused enforcement in the 16 districts 10 that do not have a delegated asbestos program. We also 11 work with EPA and districts that have delegated programs 12 where necessary. 13 --o0o-- 14 MR. BEDDOW: Finally, the Air Resources Board 15 also has a fairly newly created special investigations 16 unit. And through a Memorandum Of Understanding with 17 CalEPA, we have about four or five inspectors who do 18 focused environmental inspections. 19 Next slide. 20 --o0o-- 21 MR. BEDDOW: Generally, we focus a lot of our 22 attention on environmental justice areas, where we mixed 23 industrial and residential areas, and where the community 24 would like some enhanced enforcement. This particular 25 slide depicts a source down in the Los Angeles area and PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 22 1 it's called La Montania, where it's a large pile of rubble 2 that was generated after the earthquake. And it's created 3 quite a bit of concern about dust and all kinds of 4 different environmental concerns, zoning, et cetera. And 5 we've been working very heavily with the districts and 6 others and the community to solve this problem. 7 --o0o-- 8 MR. BEDDOW: Also, at least twice a month now we 9 also do, what we call, focused environmental inspections, 10 generally, in environmental justice areas where we work 11 with the local police departments, the hazardous materials 12 people, we inspect for illegal fuels, we inspect for 13 smoking vehicles. We work with mobile side of the 14 enforcement where they do the heavy-duty diesel 15 inspections. Also, some hazardous materials we look for 16 and we work with the CHP for safety violations. 17 --o0o-- 18 MR. BEDDOW: Some of the typical violations we 19 see are improperly labeled or loaded hazardous materials 20 which are actually moving through these communities and 21 could pose a bad spill or a difficult environmental 22 concern. 23 --o0o-- 24 MR. BEDDOW: Okay. And with that, that's the 25 four stationary source inspection measures -- enforcement PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 23 1 measures that ARB has, and I'll turn it back over to Paul. 2 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: Thank 3 you, Chuck. 4 Our final slide describes the future of our 5 enforcement program. We plan to maximize our resources by 6 cross-training staff to do various types of inspections 7 and investigations. 8 Our inspectors and investigators were previously 9 housed in two different divisions, compliance and mobile 10 source operations. Now, that they are housed in one 11 division, enforcement, the cross-training endeavor will be 12 facilitated. 13 We also plan to develop analytical tools to 14 quantify the emission benefits of our enforcement actions. 15 We have taken steps to implement this, and this program 16 will continue to evolve. We also plan to maintain a 17 significant presence in the regulated communities. To 18 date, we have increased our presence on all sources in the 19 chain of distribution for products that are significant 20 sources of emissions. 21 For example, we have recently made numerous 22 transcription to manufacturers, distributors and retailers 23 of small off-road engines and equipment, for example, 24 manufacturers of lawn mowers, weed whips, leaf blowers and 25 the like, and have improved this industry's compliance PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 24 1 rate as a result of these audits. 2 We have also placed staff in EJ communities to 3 conduct emissions and fuels inspections in conjunction 4 with the California Highway Patrol and local police 5 departments. We also, with these police agencies and 6 other agencies, conduct HAZMAT inspections. These 7 multimedia environmental inspections have uncovered 8 numerous violations, especially in the diesel truck fleet. 9 And the correction of these violations has reduced the 10 risk of exposure to harmful diesel exhaust for the 11 residents of these communities. 12 As importantly, the relationships we have 13 established with the local police and CHP in these 14 communities have provided these communities with a 24 hour 15 a day, seven day a week watch for environmental 16 violations. 17 Finally, we are in the process of integrating our 18 enforcement program with the legal office, so that our 19 investigators are working closely with our attorneys as 20 cases are being developed. As a result of this 21 integration that has taken place to date, many significant 22 cases have been settled. For those cases that were not 23 settled, they have been referred to the Attorney General's 24 office and local district attorney offices for litigation. 25 A number of these cases have been litigated or PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 25 1 settled with favorable results. This concludes our 2 presentation. We will be back next year to update you on 3 our enforcement program once again. We'd be happy to 4 address any questions any of you may have. 5 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much, an 6 excellent presentation. Any questions from the Board? 7 Supervisor Roberts and then Mrs. Riordan. 8 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: If I could, in one of the 9 early slides that popped up on the screen, it was a lawn 10 mower and some scooters and things like that. You said 11 that's where a lot of our effort is going and then you 12 showed us a slide that the diesel engines are 65 percent 13 of the PM 10 for all vehicles. Do you evaluate the 14 various efforts, you know, at dollars per ton or some 15 other way, so that we're not off chasing scooters when the 16 diesels are running around? 17 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: 18 Supervisor Roberts, absolutely we do that. The concern we 19 have with the motorized scooters, many of the 20 manufacturers have been using noncertified California 21 engines. And the emission detriment we are experiencing 22 each day in California is estimated to be, at minimum, one 23 ton per day per Volatile Organic Compounds which is 24 significant. 25 Equally as important, though, is, of course, to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 26 1 go out and conduct the diesel inspections, but those 2 motorized scooters, and this is just one of the major 3 manufacturers, has stated that's one ton per day of excess 4 emissions that needs to be addressed, and that's why we've 5 aggressively -- 6 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: So you do look at these 7 things in terms of your overall effort and the cost in 8 what you're doing? 9 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: 10 Absolutely, yes. 11 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: You didn't share any of 12 that with us and I'm curious if you have that kind of 13 information, if there's a way to look at that? 14 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: Yes, 15 we have the cost effectiveness of each of these control 16 strategies and the associated emission benefits. And the 17 other thing we address in considering those two criteria 18 is the issue of noncompliance in those affected 19 industries. 20 With the heavy-duty diesel truck fleet and bus 21 fleet, the on-road fleet, we've seen a significant decline 22 in their failure rate, and that's allowed us to now go out 23 and look at some of these new sectors, such as the small 24 off-road engine manufacturers that have a relatively high 25 noncompliance rate and we want to achieve the same result PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 27 1 by working with these folks that manufacturer, distribute 2 these engines and bring their compliance rate in line with 3 what we've achieved with the on-road diesel truck and bus 4 operators. 5 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: When you're working on 6 lawn mowers and scooters, I presume you're trying to stop 7 the sales, you're not chasing kids around the block trying 8 to confiscate their scooters? 9 ENFORCEMENT DIVISION ACTING CHIEF JACOBS: No, we 10 haven't confiscated any scooters. Although, there is a 11 number of investigations being conducted by the Consumer 12 Products Safety Commission about the safety of motorized 13 scooters. But our concern, of course, lies with the use 14 of noncertified engines. These are dirty two-stroke 15 engines. 16 And the significance here, I think the way to 17 best describe this, if you look at a typical on-road 18 vehicle compared to one of these motorized scooters or a 19 two-stroke type engine used in a weed whip or a chainsaw, 20 the emission differential from those two in comparing 21 them, your motorized scooter or your other two-stroke type 22 engines, will have anywhere from 50 to 75 times more 23 emissions, and that's why we're addressing those, because 24 they're uncontrolled sources. 25 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: I understand that. I'm PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 28 1 just thinking of what would happen if we checked more 2 diesel trucks, used our resources differently. I'm 3 just -- that's why I'm wondering what your criteria is. 4 When somebody moves to California and they have a car that 5 they bought in another State, what happens? 6 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 7 BINDER: If they're a non-California resident they have no 8 problem registering it here. 9 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: So they just register it, 10 and assuming they've owned it -- they didn't buy it a week 11 before. 12 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 13 BINDER: If they're moving here from another State it 14 doesn't matter. 15 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: It doesn't make a 16 difference? 17 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 18 BINDER: No, because they're not a California resident. 19 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: And then can they sell 20 that in California? 21 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 22 BINDER: Once it's registered under their name they can 23 legally sell it in California. 24 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: So you could, if you were 25 moving to California, you'd buy a car and move here the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 29 1 next day and register it? 2 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 3 BINDER: You could register it here, and if you decided to 4 sell it the next week, you could do that as well. 5 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Okay. 6 MOBILE SOURCE ENFORCEMENT BRANCH ACTING CHIEF 7 BINDER: As long as you're not a California resident, if 8 you're moving from another State. 9 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: You said you were doing 10 some work in environmental justice areas. Can somebody 11 define what an environmental justice area is for me, 12 because I'm having a little trouble understanding -- I 13 didn't know we had a working definition of that. 14 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: Actually, Supervisor 15 Roberts, we continue to try to define that also. And what 16 we are doing with environmental justice areas right now, 17 we are generally looking at areas that seem to be more 18 severely impacted by industrial sources and also motor 19 vehicles. And when we see that combination of, kind of, I 20 guess, urban population density which is what it tends to 21 normally be as well as, kind of, the freeways and then 22 higher industrial activity, we generally are trying to 23 focus on those areas, but we don't have, kind of, a real 24 bright line definition for what an EJ community is at this 25 point. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 30 1 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: It isn't necessarily 2 anything measurable, Mike? 3 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: Pardon me? 4 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: It's not necessarily 5 anything measurable? 6 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: It is not always 7 necessarily something measurable. Sometimes what we've 8 found, for example, is that truck activity can be enhanced 9 in areas that simply seem to be more readily accessible to 10 truck traffic. And a lot of times that truck traffic is 11 occurring on residential roads and impacting basically 12 residential neighborhoods. 13 And so we have actually been working with local 14 police agencies to try to reroute the traffic back onto 15 appropriate highways and not have it running through local 16 areas. 17 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Well, I guess, you know, 18 one of the questions that occurred to me last night is 19 whether Livermore was an environmental justice area, 20 because it seemed like there was nobody from Livermore 21 here last night, and we were focusing a lot of things. 22 And the things that I measure, and the things that I can 23 see, and the things that I think we ought to really be 24 concerned about, somehow those we don't seem to be 25 anymore. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 31 1 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: We actually are very 2 concerned about those also. And we haven't really 3 diminished our efforts in those areas. What we've simply 4 tried to do is enhance the effort in areas where we think 5 that, in fact, just a combination of numbers of sources 6 and density of population would result in greater 7 exposures. 8 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: I'll fell a little more 9 comfortable if you're focusing your efforts on 10 environmental justice areas if we have a definition of 11 what an environmental justice area is. 12 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: One of the 13 difficulties there is we have been trying to, kind of, 14 come up with a straight -- we've actually been trying -- 15 we've been wrestling with this and trying to come up with 16 definitions. But one of the difficulties has been we 17 don't want to red line areas. And so we don't want to 18 create a definition that suddenly disparages or 19 stigmatizes a particular area, and say that this is a bad 20 area and this area should be avoided, because we think 21 what will happen then is the economic development for that 22 area -- 23 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Why don't you measure the 24 air quality in an area and see if it's bad and -- 25 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: Actually, we do that. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 32 1 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: I mean, it would seem to 2 me that that would be the key rather than a political 3 solution, which seems to me to be the basis of what you're 4 doing. 5 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: I don't think it's 6 solely a political -- 7 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: It is in San Diego. 8 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Well, what we've been 9 trying to do in San Diego is look at some of the areas -- 10 we've been trying to look at the Barrio Logan area and 11 look at sort of the, you know, population and then at the 12 same time look at the industrial and freeway sources that 13 were close to Barrio Logan and take that information and 14 then try to go in there with monitoring and find out what 15 we can find out about what is happening to that particular 16 neighborhood. 17 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: What kind of coordinated 18 programs or enforcement do you have with the local air 19 boards? 20 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: Actually, we work with 21 the local air boards on a routine basis. Generally, what 22 will happen is that we will talk with the local agencies 23 and try to ensure that, in fact, they're well informed of 24 what we're doing. 25 We have had instances were, in fact, the local PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 33 1 agencies have not been informed, and that's an oversight 2 on our part. We generally tend to try to fix that and 3 then work with the agencies as well as we can. 4 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: I didn't see any slides on 5 that part of it and I was thinking that maybe that should 6 be a big part of our effort and, yet, I didn't see 7 anything in the presentation so maybe it just simply was 8 missed or maybe is it occurring in the -- 9 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: I think it is an 10 oversight with regard to the presentation. We actually do 11 work with the local air pollution control agencies on a 12 routine basis. It is part of our effort. We try not to 13 essentially write in essentially as the cowboys and just 14 simply ignore local agencies. 15 GENERAL COUNSEL WALSH: Supervisor Roberts, just 16 to give a little bit of context here, we tried in this 17 presentation to focus on the enforcement activities that 18 we carry out at the Air Resources Board related to our 19 direct areas of jurisdiction, that is the sources that you 20 adopt regulations to control. 21 We have a program at the Air Resources Board in 22 our Compliance Division that works closely with the local 23 air districts in terms the stationary source programs that 24 the districts operate. With the new Enforcement Division, 25 we have a separate focus for the division that's making PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 34 1 the presentation today. And perhaps we could put together 2 a separate presentation to the Board related to the work 3 that's being done by the Compliance Division with the 4 local districts. 5 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: That would be of interest 6 to me. 7 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Mrs. Riordan. 8 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Just a comment. I 9 appreciated this manual, and I think it's very helpful for 10 those of us who are involved with particular districts. 11 And I wanted to say thank you and hope that -- do you send 12 these out to the districts that you work with? 13 GENERAL COUNSEL WALSH: We send the enforcement 14 and compliance report out widely. It's posted on the web 15 each year when we put that out and distribute it at 16 conferences, workshops and the like. We try to get the 17 widest possible dissemination. 18 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Thank you. 19 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Professor Friedman. 20 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Well, as I 21 understand it, we have pending for near future meeting the 22 issue of more uniformity and enforcement, don't we? 23 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: We have the issue of, 24 essentially, more uniform enforcement at refineries. We 25 actually are looking at how to do that right now. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 35 1 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Ms. D'Adamo. 2 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: I think it would be 3 helpful if staff could come back regarding the report that 4 Ms. Walsh suggested, in particular, if you could report on 5 some trouble spots, such as the Bay Area. There was a lot 6 of criticism last night regarding previous plans that had 7 not been follows. 8 I'm not sure what, if anything, this Board could 9 have done in order to have ensured that the previous plans 10 were followed or if that comes -- I imagine it comes 11 within the purview of the local district, but is there 12 something that we could have done to have ensured that the 13 previous plans had been followed. 14 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: Actually, it does come 15 within this Board's purview. And I think probably the 16 major import of the comments that were made last night 17 about that was that they -- essentially, they were looking 18 at the Bay Area's clean air plans over the last 20 years. 19 And they were looking at essentially the historical 20 information that's there. And historically what had 21 happened is that we did not have attainment of air quality 22 standards under federal requirements. 23 And the reason for that was, in part, essentially 24 the fact that the problem has been a very difficult one, 25 and we've been essentially adopting regulations both at PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 36 1 the State level and at the local level to try to reduce 2 emissions from the various sources. 3 And the result of that is that we have seen a 4 significant downward trend in emissions over those 20 5 years, but we are not at the point where we can 6 essentially say that we can achieve the federal standards 7 all the time. And so I think their comments were 8 essentially more reflective of the fact that we have not 9 been able to say that we're in attainment with the federal 10 clean air standards within that 20 year time frame. 11 In terms of the way to try to make that happen, 12 this Board and the local agencies have been trying to do 13 that. And what they are doing, as I mentioned, is just 14 simply continue to adopt regulations that bring down the 15 levels of emissions. 16 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: And you think it's more 17 related to the regulations and not with regard to 18 enforcement? 19 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: Yes. 20 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: It sounded like, for 21 example, the flare -- 22 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: The flaring issue is 23 really a cost effective consideration. And what the 24 communities have asked for is that a flaring regulation be 25 put in place. And as the local district looked at that, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 37 1 the cost effectiveness of the flaring regulation was 2 extraordinarily high and so the districts did not move in 3 that direction. 4 And so although it was in the plan, the plan 5 basically is simply a road map for places that we think we 6 will go. And then when we go into the regulatory 7 development, we go into them fairly comprehensively and 8 with a lot of detail. And sometimes what we'll find is 9 that that particular regulation that we were planning 10 doesn't make sense, and we will then move away from it. 11 We ourselves have done that over time with regard 12 to regulations that we thought we could adopt. And then 13 as we went through the process, we determined that, in 14 fact, they weren't really appropriate to move forward on 15 either, because they cost too much or because there was 16 some other aspect of them that simply made them less 17 workable or less feasible. 18 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: So the appropriate vehicle 19 for us to review those issues would be the review of the 20 local district's plans such as what we saw yesterday? 21 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: Yes. We should always 22 look at the plans. And one of the key things, for example 23 like last night, is what happens is whether or not that 24 plan has sufficient emission reductions in it to achieve 25 attainment. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 38 1 The difficulty that we're going to run into and 2 that we're running into more and more is the same one we 3 ran into last night, is that we put an additional 23 tons 4 into the plan, but we didn't provide specificity with 5 regard to what those 23 tons were. And the reason for 6 that is we can't. I mean, we simply are at a point in 7 time where we have controlled so many emission sources in 8 the State that we're having difficulty identifying with 9 specificity right now what those next 23 tons are going to 10 be. 11 And so what we're relying upon in part is 12 technological advancement, which at least historically has 13 often bailed us out. Something occurs, we take advantage 14 of it, we bring a regulation to you and it gets us 15 additional tons. But right now today trying to figure out 16 what those 23 tons would be, I think we would come back to 17 you and we would say, we cannot do that. We do not know 18 how to identify all 23 of those tons unless we move into 19 things that are fairly harsh and fairly draconian, and 20 we've continued to try to approach this in a balanced 21 fashion. 22 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Supervise DeSaulnier. 23 BOARD MEMBER DeSAULNIER: Thank you, Mr. 24 Chairman. Well, having relived last night already in the 25 last ten years several times, and being a masochist by PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 39 1 nature, I was hoping we wouldn't relive it all day today. 2 But in terms of the comments, it did occur to me 3 one of the questions was oversight we were doing in the 4 Bay Area. And I have, and I think my colleagues know, I 5 fully believe we did the right thing last night. And I'm 6 in an awkward position of being critical of regional 7 agencies. As we do our work on the attainment plan, we 8 could have done a much, much better job. We were offered 9 to have a facilitated outreach process a year ago by the 10 regional administrator and I couldn't get enough support 11 on MTC in particular to do that. 12 So having relived last night, it did occur to me 13 on the way in here today, CARB did have an audit of the 14 Bay Area Air District while I've been on CARB, and I think 15 it was about three years ago. And one of the fundamental 16 complaints was our fine structure and we raised those at 17 the air district considerably. So they're approximately 18 the same as South Coast and other air districts. 19 But everything else in that audit was generally 20 very positive, so maybe we could provide some of those 21 audits in terms of our oversight authority over the 22 districts for the Board Members so there's a better 23 understanding of what we do. 24 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: We'll be happy to. 25 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 40 1 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Mr. Chairman? 2 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Yes, Supervisor Roberts. 3 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Could I ask a question? 4 How many instances of the illegal gasoline sales are we 5 finding, going back to the site with the bus and the 6 checking that's going on constantly? 7 MR. BEDDOW: It's generally probably four to five 8 per month, I would say. 9 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Four to five per month. 10 MR. BEDDOW: Yes. 11 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: And where does that come 12 from? I mean are those major refiners? 13 MR. BEDDOW: It's both. Generally, most of them 14 come at service stations where they've been getting 15 product. You know, the standards change during the year. 16 And there was a changeover in the early summer time in the 17 pressure change over and sometimes we're finding problems 18 with that. 19 And also occasionally we will find problems with 20 refineries. It's generally a mistake on their part, and 21 many times they self report. But in any case, it still is 22 a violation and we do follow up on that. 23 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Okay. So you think the 24 bulk of that is some kind of an error has been made. It 25 isn't somebody is trying to get around -- PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 41 1 MR. BEDDOW: As in any industry, I guess you 2 could call it an industry, there are people out there who 3 intentionally are trying to make a buck by not following 4 the regulation. And we do try to follow up on those kind 5 of people. But the larger players here, I would say, it's 6 mistakes that are made. 7 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Do you track them by 8 refineries to see who has the best and worst records? 9 MR. BEDDOW: Yes, we do, and the fuels regulation 10 itself has a lot of flexibility. And if a company wants 11 to exercise that flexibility, they have to report each 12 batch they make to us, so that we can track it batch by 13 batch and we do that for several refineries. 14 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: Okay. 15 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. 16 I guess that concludes the staff presentation. 17 We have one person signed up to testify, but I don't see 18 him here. 19 So with that, I guess since this is not a 20 regulatory item, it's not necessary to officially close 21 the record, but we will finish this. 22 Now, we do have to adjourn and reconvene in 23 closed session of the Board as indicated in the public 24 notice for today's meeting. The purpose of the closed 25 session is to confer with or receive advice from its legal PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 42 1 counsel regarding Kern Oil and Refining versus Michael 2 Kenny in his capacity as Executive Officer of the Air 3 Resources Board and the California Air Resource Board, 4 Sacramento Superior Court number 01CS00863. 5 After the conclusion of the closed session, we 6 will reconvene in open session to take up the next agenda 7 item on asbestos. 8 GENERAL COUNSEL WALSH: Yes, the plan is to 9 reconvene in the Koit Tower Room for the closed session. 10 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Which one is that? 11 GENERAL COUNSEL WALSH: Out the doors to the left 12 and around the room. 13 BOARD MEMBER ROBERTS: The Pizza room. 14 (Thereupon the Board recessed into a closed 15 session.) 16 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: The meeting of the California 17 Air resources Board is now in session, and please come to 18 order. 19 I'd like to announce the results of the closed 20 session. The Board has agreed to enter into a settlement 21 agreement with Kern Oil and Refining to settle the case of 22 Kern Oil and Refining Company versus Michael Kenny in his 23 capacity as Executive Officer of the Air Resources Board, 24 and the California Air Resource Board. It was a unanimous 25 vote. So the staff will proceed. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 43 1 The final item on our agenda is 01-6-7 proposed 2 Asbestos Airborne Toxic Control Measures for Construction 3 Grading, Quarrying and Surface Mining Operations. 4 Before turning things over to staff, I'd like to 5 acknowledge and express my appreciation to Mr. Jim Davis 6 and his staff for the dedicated efforts to assist the ARB 7 in the development of the controlled measure. 8 Mr. Davis is a State geologist with the 9 Department of Conservation Division of Mines and Geology. 10 We could not have done this regulation or the one that 11 preceded without his help. And thank you very much, Jim. 12 At this point, I would like to ask Mr. Kenny to 13 introduce the item and begin the staff presentation. I 14 would indicate to Mr. Kenny and to the witnesses here that 15 we are on a short time frame, because we'll be losing a 16 quorum at 11:00 o'clock, so I'm going to ask the 17 indulgence of the presenters and the witnesses we're going 18 to have to go through this thing very smartly, otherwise 19 we're going to not be able to take any action today. 20 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: Thank you, Mr. Chairman 21 and members of the Board. Last July, the Board approved 22 an asbestos airborne toxic control measure for unpaved 23 roads. And, at that time, we advised the Board that we 24 would be returning with an additional regulation to 25 control emissions of naturally occurring asbestos from PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 44 1 construction grading, quarrying and surface mining 2 operations. 3 With that, I'd like to turn it over to Mr. Dan 4 Donahoue. 5 (Thereupon an overhead presentation was 6 presented as follows.) 7 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: Good 8 morning, Board. I'm Dan Donahoue with the Stationary 9 Source Division, Air Resources Board. I'm Chief of the 10 Emissions Assessment Branch. 11 What we've done here is we're going to really 12 condense this presentation, so we're going to go through 13 it real quickly and just cover the highlights on it, so 14 lets get going on that. 15 --o0o-- 16 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 17 Basically, we're going to be covering background. We're 18 going to talk a little bit about the measures, impacts, 19 issues and summary. We'll go on through that. 20 --o0o-- 21 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 22 Certainly, from a public process, I just want to make sure 23 it's clear that we've worked with the affected industry, 24 districts and the public. We've held five workshops. 25 We've had numerous meetings. We've maintained an ongoing PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 45 1 dialogue throughout this process. 2 --o0o-- 3 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: Just 4 by way of history, asbestos was identified in '86 as a 5 toxic air contaminant. That identification treats all 6 forms equally and does not have a distinction for fiber 7 length. There's been no identified threshold for that. 8 It's classified as a human carcinogen by the Air Resources 9 Board, EPA and international agencies. And so we treat 10 all forms as equally hazardous at the State level at this 11 point in time. 12 --o0o-- 13 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 14 Health effects, we've talked about this a year ago when we 15 were here before you. It's capable of inducing both lung 16 cancer and mesathelioma certainly short-term occupational 17 exposures have documented cases of cancer causing. And 18 basically exposure that it's the opinion of OEHHA and 19 health agencies that the exposure to asbestos containing 20 dust should be minimized. 21 --o0o-- 22 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: The 23 white areas in the State is where asbestos can be found. 24 These are areas with all ultramafic rock. Ultramafic rock 25 is a parent material for serpentine asbestos material. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 46 1 That area covers about, you know, about 1.4 percent of the 2 state. It's found in 42 counties, mainly located in the 3 coast range and the Sierras. 4 --o0o-- 5 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: Just 6 real quickly, the sources of emissions of asbestos, those 7 activities that disturb ultramafic rock, this regulation 8 is focusing on the construction grading, quarrying and 9 surface mining, road construction and maintenance. The 10 other main area, last July, we came to you with a measure 11 for unpaved roads and surfacing application. These are 12 the four primary areas that we feel naturally occurring 13 asbestos emissions are associated with. 14 Certainly our directive is to reduce any toxic 15 air contaminant to the maximum level achievable in 16 consideration of cost and risk. And even where there's 17 not, you know, undisputable evidence available, we are 18 directed by the Health and safety Code to move forward. 19 --o0o-- 20 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: Just 21 kind of an overview of activities that result from 22 emissions construction and grading activities. The 23 grading, excavation, movement, movement of dirt, the slide 24 on the right shows you trackout emission, dust and dirt 25 carried out on the roadway that later becomes entrained. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 47 1 --o0o-- 2 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 3 Quarrying and surface mining activities, we've got 4 blasting, crushing, conveying, transport, trackout, road 5 things are the types of areas where you see fair amount of 6 dust emissions. 7 --o0o-- 8 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: And 9 additional road construction and maintenance activities, 10 grading. Again trackout and vehicle traffic on unpaved 11 sections during those things are the types of activities 12 that can create significant dust emissions. When those 13 occur in ultramafic areas, asbestos can also be contained 14 in that dust. 15 --o0o-- 16 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 17 Areas where ultramafic rock is. There are a number of 18 maps over here that show in the purple and another map in 19 the blue/green. Those areas are areas with ultramafic. 20 Ultramafic rock is the parent material for serpentine. 21 And you often fine asbestos within those deposits. 22 So that's the main area that we're focused on. 23 When these activities occur in the ultramafic rock areas, 24 we need to do additional things to control those 25 emissions. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 48 1 --o0o-- 2 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: Dust 3 mitigation option. There's a whole variety of options 4 available to reduce these things. Often times, what 5 you're looking at is site specific things. There may be 6 natural moisture content. There may be other things that 7 are done with respect to the roadway, so it's really a 8 site specific consideration often determining what's the 9 best group of measures that can be used. 10 These measures that we'll talk about a little bit 11 more can be very effective in reducing dust emissions and 12 the associated asbestos emissions with those. And 13 basically, if you're not seeing the dust, the particulate 14 matter emissions, there's a high likelihood that you've 15 also significantly reduced any asbestos associated with 16 those dust emissions. 17 --o0o-- 18 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 19 Requirements for construction and grading. Basically, 20 that for any application that's over an acre of disturbed 21 area that we're requiring dust mitigation, that includes 22 applying water, use of chemical suppressants, covering, 23 and tarping loads, preventing trackout and cleaning up 24 trackout and reducing speeds are all options for reducing 25 emissions from construction and grading. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 49 1 --o0o-- 2 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 3 Quarrying and surface mining, in addition to the things 4 that were mentioned before, using water spray bars on 5 conveyors, applying water, dust suppressants, those type 6 of things would reduce the emissions at quarries and 7 surface mines. 8 --o0o-- 9 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: And 10 for construction and maintenance for building roads, 11 maintaining roads, again, applying water, dust 12 suppressants. Pictured here are two trackout devices, one 13 gravel, one the other to reduce the material being carried 14 onto paved roadways and later re-entrained. 15 --o0o-- 16 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: The 17 objective proposal is clearly to protect public health, to 18 identify what are the best management practices to reduce 19 dust emissions, to help move towards statewide consistency 20 in treating these type of applications. We certainly have 21 set a fair amount of flexibility in here to allow for site 22 specific considerations and to foster innovative controls. 23 Next slide. 24 --o0o-- 25 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: Real PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 50 1 quickly, the applicability applies as I said, road 2 construction, maintenance, construction and grading 3 operations, quarrying and surface minings. When those 4 activities are located in ultramafic rock areas, the 5 parent rock that you're likely to see asbestos in, the 6 measure becomes effective. 7 In addition, if the outside of those areas on the 8 ultramafic map, if the APCO or the owner/operator is aware 9 that there is asbestos there, or if it's found during the 10 subsequent operation, it would then come in under this 11 regulation. 12 If you're outside of the ultramafic rock area, 13 the provisions of this regulation do not apply. 14 --o0o-- 15 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: Road 16 construction and maintenance, the requirements for that 17 are that the district be notified prior to the work being 18 done. There's a variety of measures that need to be 19 implemented, including speed reduction, dust control by 20 watering or chemical dust suppressant and things to 21 prevent trackout. 22 There are two exemptions that we've provided in 23 there. They are limited exemptions. There's one with 24 respect to remote locations that the APCO could grant, an 25 exemption if the road construction and maintenance PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 51 1 activity occurs more than a mile from any residents, 2 campground, day care center, those type of things. And 3 then there are specific provisions provided for emergency 4 road repair, due to flooding or road construction due for 5 fire breaks, et cetera. 6 --o0o-- 7 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 8 Construction and grading that's less than -- that is less 9 than one acre requires -- there are specific measures that 10 identified in the plan that would need to be implemented 11 to reduce those emissions, although they do not have to 12 get a plan. And there is an exemption that for homeowners 13 doing this mechanized work on their property that they are 14 not required to meet the provisions of the regulations. 15 However, what we plan to do in that area is to 16 provide public outreach and additional information to the 17 home owners to suggest what they can do to reduce those 18 emissions. 19 --o0o-- 20 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 21 Sorry, I missed that one. Construction grading greater 22 than an acre. There must be a district approved dust 23 mitigation plan. There's actually within that dust 24 mitigation plan for certain types of activities, there are 25 opacity requirements for stationary construction PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 52 1 equipment. There are work-practice requirements for 2 mobile related things like trucks driving on roads 3 required to keep adequately wet or use chemical dust 4 suppressants. And then there's an overall requirement 5 that the overall plan and the activity requirements in 6 there you cannot allow dust to be carried off of the 7 property line. 8 And there, again, are specific dust mitigation 9 measures if this area was not originally in an ultramafic 10 rock zone, but subsequent to that there's discovery of 11 asbestos on the site. 12 --o0o-- 13 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: The 14 asbestos dust mitigation plan which would address the 15 specific activity, it would identify how the performance 16 standards are going to be met, how often you're going to 17 wet down the area, whatever. It specifies the reporting 18 schedule. It's required district approval and it provides 19 flexibility to address site by site considerations. 20 --o0o-- 21 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: For 22 quarrying and surface mining, it's basically the same 23 requirements as for construction grading, greater than one 24 acre. Again, a plan is required. There are specific 25 performance standards both on the property line and at the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 53 1 individual pieces of equipment or for the mobile generated 2 emissions. 3 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Dan, what's the magic about 4 one acre? 5 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: It 6 really isn't -- it was just a provision that we've come up 7 with. It could go one way or another. A number of the 8 local planning agencies use an acre as a cut for when they 9 would require a grading permit or something like that, so 10 that's, you know, where we've come up with that. 11 Okay, next slide. 12 --o0o-- 13 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: You 14 know, with respect to the construction grading, there are 15 exemptions provided for agricultural and timber harvesting 16 operations, but not for the construction and grading of 17 roads and buildings and those areas. And there also is a 18 provision for exempting sand and gravel operations that 19 are in the alluvial deposits from processing those 20 materials that are coming out of the alluvial deposits, 21 but still requiring them to comply if the roadways are in 22 ultramafic areas. 23 --o0o-- 24 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 25 There also is a requirement in the regulation for optional PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 54 1 air monitoring. The district can require air monitoring. 2 We believe that that might be required in situations where 3 there's a site going in in close proximity to residences 4 where there's been a past history of complaints. Those 5 type of things that is on the district's discretion to 6 require it. And that would allow them to modify the dust 7 mitigation plan based upon the results of that monitoring. 8 --o0o-- 9 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: We 10 are proposing a number of changes to the originally 11 proposed version. We're providing some clarification for 12 the criteria on the geological evaluation. We are 13 revising the section on road construction and maintenance 14 to address some of the issues that have come up to provide 15 a little bit greater flexibility in that area to address 16 comments both from road construction agencies and some of 17 the timber industry's concerns in that area. And there 18 are a number of minor changes for improving clarity. 19 --o0o-- 20 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 21 Basically, from an economic standpoint, you know, the cost 22 of this regulation is fairly low considering what we're 23 trying to achieve here. For small construction projects, 24 home owner type projects, we're looking at around $55. 25 For new home construction to require the grading controls PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 55 1 on that, we're looking at on the order of $200 to $500 per 2 home. 3 You know, we're looking probably at around, you 4 know, 1,200 homes per year that may come under the 5 regulation for subdivision development. 6 Quarries, it's important to note that in a lot of 7 cases these requirements are already being implemented 8 either by local district rules or by the permits that 9 they're required to get from land-use agencies. So the 10 first year cost is in the $5,000 to $7,000 per quarry 11 range. And then the ongoing cost is around $2,000. The 12 total cost of the measure, we think, is in the order of 13 $600,000 to a million dollars per year. 14 --o0o-- 15 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 16 Environmental impacts, there will be some increased 17 emissions from increased diesel truck usage, power to pump 18 water and there will be increased water usage, certainly, 19 reductions in particulate matter and asbestos emissions on 20 the other side, and it we'll serve to greatly reduce the 21 public exposure to asbestos. 22 --o0o-- 23 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: The 24 benefits, you know, certainly the reductions in asbestos 25 exposure to all communities, a little bit better statewide PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 56 1 consistency with respect to how to handle developments and 2 activities in ultramafic rock areas. And there's a 3 considerable flexibility within the regulation to allow 4 site-specific considerations that would help minimize cost 5 and encourage innovation. 6 --o0o-- 7 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 8 We're going to go ahead and skip the issues. Those are 9 going to be brought up by others. 10 --o0o-- 11 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: In 12 summary, you know, public health protection we're 13 encouraging the use of best management practices. Many of 14 these have already been used by quarries, surface mines 15 and construction sites. 16 We're certainly trying to help address 17 site-specific conditions, by the way of the regulation 18 structure. And we do believe that we have crafted cost 19 effective regulations that will reduce asbestos emissions 20 in these areas. 21 --o0o-- 22 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: The 23 recommendation would be to adopt the staff proposed 24 changes and authorize the Executive Officer to amend the 25 list of geological maps as needed. There are maps that PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 57 1 identify the geographic areas as the Department of 2 Conservation, Division of Mines and Geology goes through 3 and updates those periodically. We'd like to have the 4 ability for the Executive Officer to approve those into 5 the regulation. This was done on the measure that was 6 adopted last July. 7 --o0o-- 8 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: And 9 that's it. 10 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. That 11 concludes staff presentation. 12 Any questions from the Board at this time? 13 Then, I guess, the first witness we have Mr. 14 Ronald Churchill and I'm going to ask Professor Friedman 15 to take over for awhile. 16 DR. CHURCHILL: Mr. Chairman and board members, 17 I'm Dr. Ronald Churchill. I'm a Senior Geologist with the 18 California Department of Conservation, Division of Mines 19 and Geology. Dr. James Davis, the State Geologist 20 couldn't be here this morning. He asked me to summarize 21 several major points in our written testimony submitted to 22 the Board regarding the geology of natural occurring 23 asbestos in California. 24 Dr. Davis and the Division of Mines and Geology 25 staff believe that our testimony concerning the occurrence PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 58 1 of ultramafic rocks and asbestos minerals accurately 2 summarizes the current state of knowledge of these 3 geological materials in California. 4 Our statements are based on DMG knowledge of the 5 state's geology, field examinations of ultramafic rock 6 bodies, reviews of numerous public papers on the petrology 7 and mineralogy of ultramafic rocks in California and 8 discussions with other knowledgeable geologists outside of 9 the Division of Mines and Geology that have studied 10 petrology, mineralogy and the occurrences of ultramafic 11 rocks in the State. 12 The first point I'd like to make is that there's 13 a good probability of at least low levels of asbestos in 14 ultramafic rocks and serpentinite in California. In the 15 State naturally reoccurring asbestos minerals are most 16 commonly associated with ultramafic rocks and their 17 metamorphic derivatives, particularly serpentinite. 18 Ultramafic rocks and serpentinite are widely distributed 19 in the State and are common in the Sierra Nevada 20 foothills, coast ranges, Klammath mountains. 21 Ultramafic rocks form in high temperature and 22 high pressure environments deep beneath the surface of the 23 earth. By the time they're exposed at the earth's 24 surface, these rocks typically have undergone 25 metamorphism. That's a process that changes the original PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 59 1 mineral content of the rock to minerals that are more 2 stable and closer to the earth's surface. 3 The most common type of metamorphism and 4 Ultramafic rocks is serpentinization. And that's a 5 process that alters these original minerals to serpentine 6 group minerals. One of those minerals, chrysotile, is 7 often present in its asbestos form habit. 8 Metamorphic processes also may lead to the 9 formation of amphibole asbestos minerals such as termalite 10 and actinalyte in ultramafic rocks. The process of 11 metamorphism typically proceeds in successive steps rather 12 than happening all at once. Consequently, when finally 13 exposed at the surface of the earth, some ultramafic rocks 14 will only be partially metamorphosed while others may be 15 completely metamorphosed or completely converted to 16 serpentinite. 17 If the majority of the original minerals have 18 been changed to serpentine minerals, the rock will be 19 called a serpentinite. If only part of the rock has been 20 changed to serpentine minerals, geologists may call the 21 rock an ultramafic rock. 22 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Excuse me, sir. 23 We're going to lose a quorum and there are a lot of people 24 who want to speak. And I believe all of us have gotten -- 25 and that's three minutes already. Where you could really PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 60 1 be helpful -- I think we've all gotten a pretty good 2 grounding in the geology. I'm wondering -- 3 DR. CHURCHILL: I'm almost done. I can give a 4 final point. 5 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Yeah. If you would. 6 If you could tell us what you think of this regulation, 7 this proposal. 8 DR. CHURCHILL: The final point is that currently 9 there's no generally accepted method for determining low 10 levels of asbestos in ultramafic rocks and serpentinite to 11 a high degree of certainty and that's the final point that 12 I wanted to make. 13 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: So it's always 14 potentially there. 15 DR. CHURCHILL: It's basically potentially there 16 in those kinds of rocks, yes. 17 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you very much. 18 Any questions from any of the Board members? 19 What'd I'd like to do and ask you to please 20 address us and try to confine your remarks to two minutes, 21 if you possibly can, is call on those who are signed up in 22 opposition and then we'll take as many as we can of those 23 who have signed up in favor. But I think what we would 24 benefit most from is to hear what the concerns are about 25 the proposed regulation. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 61 1 So the first one is Mr. Charles Rea, then Mark 2 Harrison. Mr. Rea and Mr. Harrison, if you would be good 3 enough to kind of lineup so that we don't spend a lot of 4 time waiting for you to get up to the podium, we'd 5 appreciate it very much. 6 And then Mr. Cunningham. 7 Sir. 8 MR. REA: My name is Charlie Rea with the 9 Construction Materials Association of California, trade 10 association for aggregate and ready-mix producers in 11 northern California. 12 Just briefly I want to say that we tried to work 13 constructively with the staff in trying to develop 14 something, a regulation that helps control potential 15 asbestos emissions. And I won't go through all the areas, 16 but there have been several areas where they've been 17 helpful and made changes that we are pleased with. 18 But we do have a couple of concerns, and I'll 19 just talk about the one concern that we have, at this 20 point, and that is, what I call, no way out. There's no 21 way in this regulation to prove -- if you can prove you 22 don't have asbestos on your site or the area you're 23 working on, there's no way to get out of the regulation. 24 We think that's an important point to focus the 25 regulation on asbestos. We believe it's already being PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 62 1 done in lot of instances. Geologists go out and look at 2 sites, determine whether there's asbestos or not, 3 operators have means to sample their rock material as it 4 goes through the process to monitor for asbestos or not. 5 I know the staff is concerned that to put in a process 6 like that might be costly or difficult to do. 7 And that may be true, but I think our concern is 8 there's at least an option to do that or try to establish 9 those type of methods to prove there is no asbestos. We 10 think that it would be an important incentive to have that 11 option to try and prove there is no asbestos. And I think 12 at one point the staff was looking at putting that in and 13 to put some conditions in that there be some continuous 14 monitoring and sampling, and we were happy to agree to 15 that, too. 16 My one request today is that you would consider 17 putting in at least as an option that someone try to 18 establish that there is no asbestos and then out of the 19 regulation that way. 20 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Yes, thank you, sir. 21 Go ahead please, Ms. D'Adamo. 22 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Could staff respond to 23 that, that seems like a reasonable request, particularly 24 if the burden would be upon the land owner. 25 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: Actually, let me start PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 63 1 while they're getting the microphone to work. 2 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Can we get a mic 3 back there working. 4 MR. AMES: My name is Don Ames. And we would be 5 glad to comply with this request. However, we are relying 6 upon the expertise of the State Geologist. At this point 7 in time, the science is not there to provide a method. 8 We've asked the industry to come forward with any methods 9 they have that would work that would be peer reviewed and 10 they have not come forth with that. 11 So right now, we just don't see that that can be 12 identified, but we have made the commitment that should a 13 method be developed that is peer reviewed and is based on 14 sound science, we will amend the regulation to allow to 15 test out. 16 So the bottom line is we're relying upon the 17 expertise of the State Geologist at this time. The State 18 Geologist says no, it can't be done. 19 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Would there be any harm in 20 including that in the reg though now, so that staff would 21 have the latitude? 22 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: We could actually -- 23 the only option we could provide would be one in which we 24 did provide as an option that once the State Geologist 25 confirmed that, in fact, there was such a method, that PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 64 1 method could be utilized. 2 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: In other words, the 3 burden is on them, but based on the State Geologist's 4 confirmation. 5 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: That would seem very 6 reasonable, then we've satisfied both interests. 7 MR. REA: That would be helpful. Thank you very 8 much. 9 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you very much. 10 The next one is Mr. Mark Harrison and then the next 11 speaker after that is Mr. Cunningham. 12 MR. HARRISON: Thank you very much, my name is 13 Mark Harrison. I'm with the Diepenbrock Law Firm 14 representing the Construction Materials Association of 15 California. 16 The Association welcomes appropriate regulation 17 of naturally occurring asbestos, but they're not convinced 18 that this is that appropriate type of regulation, for one 19 primary reason. And that is under the Health and Safety 20 Code provisions that govern your adoption of an ATCM, 21 there's a pretty heavy burden on the Air Resources Board 22 to develop information on actual emissions and the actual 23 reductions that will be achieved as a result of the ATCM. 24 So one thing I urge you is to read carefully the 25 statute before you take action on this, because without PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 65 1 doing that, you're not going to be able to exercise your 2 adjudicative function today of balancing the effectiveness 3 against the cost against the reduction in risk. 4 So that's an important point, because this is a 5 very powerful Board of course. And ordinarily you act in 6 a purely legislative function. Today, you're acting in a 7 blend of a legislative and an adjudicative function. 8 If I could illustrate my point. In the ISOR, it 9 is stated that staff recognizes that 25 mines will become 10 subject to the control measure on quarrying, but there has 11 been no effort to gather data on those mines. We don't 12 know whether those mines -- we don't know the emissions 13 from the mines. We don't know, as stated, whether they're 14 already using dust control mechanisms and we don't know 15 the reduction that's going to be achieved. 16 We don't know the amount of water that's going to 17 be used and that's the fundamental control mechanism here, 18 and so you can't address the environmental regulations 19 associated with water use. 20 So I think what I'm saying is that this inquiry 21 is important and it should go forward, but I don't think 22 it can go forward to a good conclusion until more data is 23 gathered. 24 Any questions? 25 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 66 1 Any questions? 2 Thank you, Mr. Harrison. 3 Mr. Cunningham. 4 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Board members and staff, I want 5 to point out a double standard situation within the State 6 of California. And that is the Clear Creek off-road 7 vehicle facility in a known asbestos area. I've left you 8 my packet. Don't be disturbed, my presentation will be 9 quite short. Most of it is backup documentation. 10 And I want to address the liability of the State 11 of California. In your packet are a BLM map and a map 12 from the Triple A Automobile Association delineating that 13 area as an asbestos hazard area. 14 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Can you move the 15 microphone a little closer to you. I'm having trouble 16 hearing you. 17 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Sure, delineating that area as 18 an asbestos hazard area. The liability of the State of 19 California is monumental. The packet will show you a 20 number of companies filed bankruptcy due to asbestos 21 claims, one of them last week being US Gypsum, July the 22 20th. 23 And you asked me why California has liability? 24 Because California is funding this asbestos off-road 25 vehicle facility with 1,000 miles of dirt bike roads. The PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 67 1 trackout is monumental. The asbestos is being deposited 2 in Clear Creek, San Benito River, Hernandez Reservoir, 3 Pajaro River and into Monterey Bay. 4 In your packet, you'll find a flyer from the BLM. 5 This says that due to the asbestos hazard, BLM does not 6 encourage use. Secondly, they say there's no known safe 7 level. Short-term recreation exposure at Clear Creek are 8 often higher than industrial limits set by OSHA. 9 Also, in your packet, you'll find a compendium of 10 events sponsored by the BLM and financed by the State of 11 California. Also, in your packet, you'll find the grant 12 application. Please review the packet. 13 And I'm here to ask you one item, one item. And 14 that is at A-5 of the staff report, I would like to see 15 that changed where it says, "Road services on private 16 property in remote locations are exempt if alternate 17 material is not available. All roads open to the public 18 shall conform to the asbestos airborne toxic control 19 measure." One thousand miles of motorcycle vehicle 20 off-road is tremendous track. 21 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: I think we 22 understand. 23 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Okay. One more point. The 24 asbestos litigation attorneys are milling around. I have 25 a copy of a letter in my file within the ethics of the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 68 1 profession, but reading between the lines the firm is 2 asking for me to produce a case, a damaged person. I have 3 property there, and it is an environmental travesty 4 supported by the State of California. 5 Thank you. 6 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Mr. Kenny, can you 7 respond? 8 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: We actually have looked 9 at the Clear Creek area, and there are a number of 10 concerns about the Clear Creek area. We have actually 11 also talked with a number of other State agencies about 12 what we can do to minimize usage of Clear Creek. At this 13 point, we've been unsuccessful. Some of those agencies 14 have been, for example, the Parks and Rec Department. 15 We've also tried to work with the BLM folks, and we've 16 also even talked to the Attorney General's office. 17 This is a serious issue with regard to the fact 18 that Clear Creek is essentially -- 19 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: It's a remote area? 20 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Well, it's a 21 relatively remote area, but what's happening is we get a 22 lot of people who are in there using off-road recreational 23 vehicles on essentially dry land, and that then kicks up 24 exactly what we don't want to kick up. 25 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: So wouldn't we want PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 69 1 to regulate it? 2 MR. CUNNINGHAM: It's a jurisdictional problem, 3 Mr. Chairman. 4 EXECUTIVE OFFICER KENNY: It's not our 5 jurisdiction. What we've been trying to do is get 6 essentially the appropriate authorities to move the 7 off-road activity out of that area. 8 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you. Any 9 other questions from the Board? 10 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Thank you. May I make one more 11 point? 12 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: If it's in response 13 to a question. 14 MR. CUNNINGHAM: There's a letter in your packet 15 from the State Director of the BLM stating to Barbara 16 Boxer that there are 40,000 to 50,000 visitor days at that 17 facility. A visitor day is eight hours. The arithmetic 18 is 400,000 hours. 19 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Sir, we're being 20 told and you apparently acknowledge we have no authority. 21 MR. CUNNINGHAM: I understand that. My point 22 is -- 23 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: So what -- 24 MR. CUNNINGHAM: My point is the State of 25 California is funding the facility via grants. You have PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 70 1 liability. Back a way from that liability, back away from 2 that liability by changing the verbiage as I so suggest. 3 Thank you. 4 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you very much. 5 Any other questions? 6 Thank you. 7 Mr. Harper and then Mr. Cortner. 8 MR. HAPRER: Mr. Chairman and members, Adam 9 Harper representing the California Mining Association. 10 We're a statewide trade association. We represent 11 approximately 80 percent of the mineral production in the 12 state of California. The State of California itself is 13 the number two nonfuel mineral producing State in the 14 nation. We have a number of concerns. Some of the 15 concerns go back to the concerns raised by Mr. Harrison 16 and Mr. Rea. 17 In terms of the issue of whether you can prove 18 you are not disturbing asbestos, we believe that, yes, 19 there are options if you look outside the straight 20 geologic science and include other disciplines. We 21 believe that you could go in with a geologist, determine 22 what rocks are present, determine if there are rocks that 23 present a risk, you can then come in with analytical tools 24 such as CARB 435, which does detect asbestos in both 25 materials. You used it in the previous ATCM, determine if PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 71 1 you're having a measurable level of asbestos near the 2 surface and then set up an ongoing monitoring program 3 throughout the life of the facility to determine if you 4 are you determining asbestos in the future, if you could 5 come out clean on the front end. 6 We believe that is a valid option. It is an 7 option the Board could consider. We believe it should be 8 a secondary option, where some might not choose to go a 9 more expensive route where they're going to do ongoing 10 monitoring, some operations for liability reasons to 11 ensure the public that they are not promoting a risk, 12 would really like to have this type of option within the 13 ATCM itself. 14 Moving on. Mr. Harrison had mentioned the 15 relevance and the importance of ensuring that the 16 adequate -- the information before you was adequate to 17 meeting your burdens under the law in adopting the ATCM. 18 Looking at the sampling data and referring to the Health 19 and Safety Code Section 39655, which states the rate and 20 extent of present and anticipated future emissions. 21 We believe that staff has not yet set the rate of 22 present emissions. If you look at the quarry data, you've 23 got two sampling studies from 1998 that are included. The 24 timing of that data is such that dust control has improved 25 since then. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 72 1 Are the facilities still operating under those 2 dust controls, is that reflective of current emissions? 3 We believe those are key questions. In addition, we have 4 sampling occasions in '98 around a serpentine quarry, that 5 at the same time sampling was ongoing was cited for 6 violations of dust rules. 7 Is that data representative of an emission from a 8 law abiding operator operating in accordance with existing 9 dust laws? 10 Finally, you have data around an inactive site 11 that is not operating, and therefore that data does not 12 really relate at all to an operating quarry and their 13 potential emissions. There are no control measures 14 potentially taking place. 15 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Your time has 16 elapsed. Can you conclude. 17 MR. HARPER: Our comments included a number of 18 suggestions. One of them was a clarification that 19 currently materials that have been tested to not contain 20 asbestos under the surfacing ATCM are regulated in this 21 ATCM for transportation off the site. 22 Those materials have been proven to not have 23 asbestos in the previous ATCM under the monitoring. We 24 believe those materials should be specifically exempted 25 from that portion. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 73 1 We did include some sample language in our 2 comments. And in terms of costs, we did an analysis of 3 the AHERA method potential cost if an operator was ordered 4 by and APCO to monitor continuously throughout the year, 5 they could be looking at spending $800,000 a year in 6 consulting, monitoring, and lab analysis fees, and that is 7 included with our comments as well. 8 We do believe that it is inappropriate to include 9 the ability of the APCO to change a best available control 10 technology plan without setting an appropriate level of 11 what the emission should be. And we believe that you are 12 mixing up a back standard and a prescriptive standard at 13 the same time by including that discretionary authority. 14 We would move that section -- leave the ability 15 of the APCO to potentially include dust monitoring as part 16 of the mitigation plan where the operator and the APCO can 17 talk through those issues when it would be required, what 18 the scenarios would be, when it would be triggered, if 19 what result was found what would happen. We believe that 20 is the appropriate place for it within the regulation, not 21 in two places. 22 Thank you. 23 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you. 24 Questions? 25 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Mr. Chairman, I think it PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 74 1 would be great to have staff -- there were several points 2 raised there. I think one about a monitoring procedure 3 very early in his testimony. 4 MR. AMES: Again, this is Don Ames. As far as 5 the monitoring and the concern of $800,000 a year, we've 6 taken a look at that. And in order to follow up on the 7 industry's concern, we've discussed with the air 8 districts, and you'll see two letters in your record, one 9 from the Monterey Bay and one from the Bay Area district, 10 which reiterates what we say in the staff report. And 11 that is, they will only require monitoring in very limited 12 situations where you have extraordinary high exposure near 13 a school or a record of noncompliance. They will not be 14 asking for the type of monitoring that the industry is 15 fearful of. 16 And secondly, the districts already have this 17 discretion, and so we don't want to hand tie the district 18 from using that discretion they already have. 19 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Okay. I'm sorry. What I 20 was getting at is the method of using a geologist 21 initially, and then what was it sampling or 22 quantitative -- 23 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: Mr. McKinnon, on that 24 one, I think, basically we've tried to provide essentially 25 was in response to the previous witness also, in which PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 75 1 what we would do is we would actually put an option in. 2 And so long as the State Geologist is comfortable with 3 that testing protocol, we're happy to live with it. 4 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Okay. 5 MR. HARPER: Our comments did deal with these 6 issues in depth. 7 Thank you. 8 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you. 9 Mr. Cortner and then Mr. Hatler. 10 MR. CORTNER: Good morning, members of the Board. 11 I'm Steve Cortner with Vulcan Materials Company. We're 12 the nations foremost producer of construction aggregates 13 and a major producer of other construction materials. 14 Basically, I'm here to just say that Vulcan has 15 not asked the Board to ignore asbestos as a toxic air 16 contaminant. We're asking to deal with it in a fair hand. 17 We're asking the Board to regulate asbestos using the same 18 risk management tools and levels of analysis as the rest 19 of the world and as US EPA uses. 20 Vulcan is also concerned that the ATCM will be 21 applied inconsistently across the State by various 22 districts and the APCOs and want to see uniformity 23 throughout the State. 24 Vulcan requests that asbestos be defined 25 properly, consistent with OSHA and again with EPA, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 76 1 clearly, relative to natural occurring asbestos not to 2 processed asbestos. 3 Vulcan has no desire to produce 4 product-containing asbestos. Vulcan and the industry have 5 measures to determine asbestos content in ultramafic rock 6 formations. And Vulcan, absent a regulation on its own, 7 has been monitoring asbestos for over a decade. 8 Vulcan Materials currently operates a settled 9 dust asbestos monitoring program in each of its quarries 10 where asbestos may be present. 11 Vulcan Materials Company is committed to not only 12 the safety of its employees but the health and welfare of 13 the communities in which it operates. 14 Vulcan Materials Company would like to ask the 15 Board to adopt the suggested changes proposed by RJ Lee to 16 the AHERA method. 17 And in closing, Vulcan Materials is a member of 18 both the California Mining Association and the 19 Construction Materials Association of California and 20 agrees with and supports the modifications proposed by 21 both associations. 22 Thank you very much. 23 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you. 24 Questions? 25 Mr. Hatler. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 77 1 MR. HATLER: Thank you for hearing me. I am from 2 Sierra Rock of Tuolumne county. Most of what I have to 3 say concerns with Tuolumne county. It has nothing to do 4 with the rest of the State, because I don't travel much. 5 I'm one of the quarries who actually has 6 serpentine material on my property. And I testified 7 before the Board last year on alternative sampling 8 measures. Last year, you instructed the staff to look 9 into alternative sampling measures for asbestos on the 10 borrow material or other material on the site to establish 11 a pattern, so that maybe you could not have such costly 12 data so to speak, or to find out whether you do or you 13 don't have it before the material has been run through the 14 crushing operation. 15 To date, I have not received anything from that. 16 In my operation where I'm at right now, it is currently on 17 its way to a short life, about another year and it will be 18 shutdown, but I am moving to another site where ultramafic 19 is absolutely on the site. The new site is different than 20 the site that I'm at right now, in that I have had 21 geologists out there and we have looked at the material in 22 different phases. 23 And the eastern side of the site is limestone 24 shale schist, things of that nature, and it actually comes 25 up to a fault where there is ultramafic. It seems to me PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 78 1 that I'm going to have to live with whatever you guys put 2 right here. And the costs and the documentation needs to 3 be made as minimal as possible, and so I really need an 4 alternative rather than having to sample all the material 5 that is produced through the site, again that goes back to 6 the drill cuttings. If they can see their way to do that, 7 it would help me out a lot. 8 The other thing is the liability. If there isn't 9 a clear way -- if I have to actually test every thousand 10 tons of material that comes out of that plant and not have 11 an alternative site, it would be very hard for the record 12 keeping, and I'm pretty sure that that's not something 13 that I would like to do. 14 The other thing is from last year's ATCM that was 15 produced, it seems to me that that effectively takes care 16 of what was intended for last year's modification of the 17 ATCM, and that is to bring it down to a quarter of a 18 percent of the asbestos content. 19 That effectively, from my standpoint, takes care 20 of all surfacing done commercially or privately, because 21 nobody would go ahead and crush the material and sell it 22 for surfacing. Therefore, I don't think that this 23 particular ATCM needs to be taken care of, because I 24 believe it has already been done in last year's things. I 25 don't think very many companies would want the liability PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 79 1 of producing serpentine. 2 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Your time has 3 elapsed. Could you conclude. 4 MR. HATLER: Yes. That is basically all I have 5 to say. I think last year's ATCM took care of this and I 6 think this is going to put a lot of undue strain on 7 things. 8 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Thank you. 9 Questions from my colleagues? 10 Thank you, Mr. Hatler. 11 Mr. Trent and then Mr. Pawlicki. 12 MR. TRENT: Hi. I'm Terry Trent. I'm here to 13 ask you to throw this measure back to staff and to ask 14 them to do the science. My main -- 15 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: What are your 16 specific concerns. 17 MR. TRENT: Yes. You'll get those. My main 18 interest is exposures to human beings and the disease that 19 it causes. I think you have some very large shocks in the 20 future once you start looking at that. And I think it's a 21 good time to look at that now. 22 My secondary is residents living on top of 23 asbestos deposits, if any of you have ever lived on or 24 near a beach, you know, that you can't keep the sand away 25 from your houses, you know that you can't keep it out of PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 80 1 your cars. It's the same thing on an asbestos deposit. 2 I'm having a little difficulty understanding 3 fundamentally how the Air Resources Board is involved in 4 asbestos exposures or regulations at all. It appears that 5 monitoring of asbestos picks up short fiber chrysotile. 6 The longer fibers from nine microns on in chrysotile are 7 not necessarily airborne in the fashion that you're 8 thinking of them. 9 Certainly, in the termalite areas, they're not 10 airborne in the fashion that you're thinking of them. The 11 best model to use for termalite exposures is actually a 12 Honta Virus Model. So with that in mind, with those types 13 of exposures with asbestos, I would recommend that you 14 send this back to staff and have them take a look at that. 15 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Questions? 16 Mr. Pawlicki and then John SCott and Earl 17 Withycombe. 18 MR. PAWLICKI: Thank you. I'm Mark Pawlicki 19 representing Simpson Timber Company. I will be brief 20 today. I have the flue, so I have an incentive to get out 21 of here. 22 My company owns and manages about a half million 23 acres of timber land in northern California in Humboldt 24 and Del Norte counties. Our comments are really 25 restricted to Section little d of the rules with the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 81 1 requirements for road construction and maintenance. 2 (Laughter.) 3 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Sorry, that was for 4 the prior speaker. Continue, please. 5 MR. PAWLICKI: In section little d, we have just 6 some, I guess you might call them, technical things, that 7 I did talk to staff about it and I did hear that they were 8 talking about some amendments. 9 First, we do appreciate that there is an 10 exemption for remote areas. Most of our land is in a 11 remote area. We think though, it ought to be applied 12 automatically rather than having to go through the process 13 of the APCO. 14 Second, we do a lot of relatively minor 15 maintenance activities, such as, you know, culvert 16 replacement or cleaning ditches and that sort of thing. 17 But all the section D requirements apply to us when we 18 even do these relatively minor things, like giving a 19 14-day notice to the APCO. It just doesn't seem to be a 20 practical thing to us. 21 Section, D1, capital B talks about any activity 22 that disturbs the ground. Well, that could be somebody 23 walking. So I think that needs to be tightened up a 24 little bit. Also, it probably conflicts, I think, with 25 the definition of construction in the back of the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 82 1 regulations. 2 We suggest that the language be clarified that 3 applies to those road construction activities where heavy 4 earth moving equipment is used. In addition, the road 5 watering or abatement activities, in our case, has to 6 occur behind the road construction. We're in heavily 7 timbered steep areas and we can't possibly water in 8 advance and I don't think that was the intent here, but I 9 think it should made clear. 10 Fourth, Section D1 capital D, limits the speed of 11 any vehicles traveling across unpaved areas of 15 miles an 12 hour. Well, this provision appears to be targeted towards 13 ongoing activities, rather than, you know, road 14 construction or maintenance. And we would view this as 15 something that probably ought to be deleted. In fact, in 16 general, one of our major comments is that it really ought 17 to be applying to just construction and not maintenance. 18 Fifth, Section D1 capital E requires that 19 vehicles must pass over a trackout area, but it doesn't 20 clarify if you have a -- do you have to have a trackout 21 area in every road that you have, even if it's never going 22 to be used by an area where you've crossed ultramafic 23 rock? I think that could be tightened up a little bit. 24 These are our primary concerns. They're mostly, 25 I think, technical as far as the language goes and are PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 83 1 peculiar aspects of the way we build our roads in timber 2 lands. And I appreciate you taking my comments. 3 Thank you. 4 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Question, Mr. McKinnon. 5 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: I'm interested, staff 6 mentioned briefly there was consideration of some 7 amendments. Where is that at? 8 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: Dan 9 Donahoue. Actually, we've proposed some of the amendments 10 and we have ongoing work to be done with this section with 11 addressing, you know, certainly clarifying that it applies 12 to construction and maintenance activities. We will be 13 working with the various stakeholders including Simpson, 14 Department of Transportation and some of the local things 15 to finalize that language here. Probably, the two areas 16 that we're not in agreement with is that we do believe 17 maintenance activities need to come in here. 18 However, there is a provision within the current 19 thing that requires -- that allows you guys to come up 20 with a different schedule than the 14-day. You can work 21 with the district on that. We think that provides the 22 flexibility. And then we do believe that the remote 23 location does need to go to APCO for approval, but there 24 will be some ongoing changes and clarifications. And 25 certainly Simpson Timber will be involved in those PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 84 1 processes as part of the 15-day changes. 2 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. 3 Janna Scott. 4 MS. SCOTT: Good morning. My name is Janna 5 Scott. I'm representing the Forest Resources Council. 6 The Forest Resources Council is an organization of 7 California forest product companies who together own 8 approximately 877,000 acres of forest land in northern 9 California especially. 10 The Forest Resources Council shares the Board's 11 concern about legitimate health and safety issues 12 associated with asbestos containing materials. However, 13 the Council's concern about the broad scope of the 14 proposed ATCM and by the overall regulatory burden that 15 could be imposed on the regulated community. 16 The Forest Resources Council requests that the 17 regulation be reviewed again for compliance with the 18 California Administrative Procedures Act requirements 19 relating to authority, necessity, consistency and clarity. 20 And we urge the Board to consider a means of 21 focusing the proposed regulation more narrowly, thereby 22 reducing the regulatory burden of this proposal. I would 23 agree with the comments of Mr. Pawlicki, and I'd like to 24 comment specifically on a point that he raised. 25 The 14-day notice is especially onerous to the PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 85 1 timber companies involved. The timber operating season is 2 short. It lasts approximately 20 weeks because of weather 3 conditions, habitat, species and other considerations. 4 Thus, the two week notice period represents a 5 significant percentage of the total time in which timber 6 harvesting can occur. This is especially true if a timber 7 harvest plan is approved late in the timber harvest 8 season. 9 We have a number of other concerns about the 10 proposed regulations, but in the interests of time I'll 11 refer you to our submitted comments for our suggested 12 changes to them. 13 The Forest Resources Council is committed to the 14 development of workable regulations, which are consistent 15 with existing laws and that are based on sound reasoning 16 and science. 17 For each of the reasons discussed today and in 18 our submitted comments, the Forest Resources Council 19 specifically requests that the Board reconsider the 20 proposed regulation. 21 Thank you. 22 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. 23 Questions? 24 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: Could the staff 25 respond on the 14-day notice. That does seem like a PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 86 1 problem. 2 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 3 Yeah, in a section of the Regulation, it says that the 4 APCO receive written notice within 14 days about the 5 activity or in accordance with procedures approved by the 6 district, so they can work with the district to come up 7 with a list of projects, phone call, you know, those type 8 of things. I think -- we believe we've addressed that 9 issue. 10 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: And the districts 11 have given some assurances that they understand the 12 practical problems? 13 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 14 Particularly, the districts in the northern part of the 15 state that deal with these type of things on an ongoing 16 basis, yes, they have. 17 BOARD MEMBER HUGH FRIEDMAN: So that's a local 18 district discretion? 19 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Any other? 20 Yes, Mr. McKinnon. 21 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Yeah, I continue to have 22 a concern here. And this industry applies for CEQA 23 equivalent permits to do harvest that include all sorts of 24 conditions regarding roads and other impacts. And my 25 concern is we may even set up contradictory situations PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 87 1 where we're requiring something with respect to a road 2 that is different than how the watershed should be treated 3 and that kind of thing. 4 There's a lot of complexity to what we're doing 5 here with respect to this industry in very, very remote 6 rural locations, and I'm worried about how we're going to 7 manage that. 8 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: I 9 think one of the things that we've done in the regulation 10 is that because many of these industries are subject to 11 things like timber harvest plans are subject to SMARA 12 regulations other type of things, we've provided a 13 provision in there that says if you have existing 14 requirements, however those are located, you can bring 15 those forward to the district to become part of your plan 16 and use that. 17 So as long as the district can enforce those 18 requirements and they meet the specifications of the 19 regulation, they can do it. So we see them, in many 20 cases, being able to use the requirements that they have 21 to address the provisions in this regulation. And that's 22 why we've given flexibility within the regulation for the 23 APCO to make determinations as to, you know, what 24 adequately meets the various options of the requirements. 25 So we have tried to address that in that way. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 88 1 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. Now, we're going 2 to Jon Morgan, Bob Reynolds, Ross Calper, James Wagoner, 3 so we'll get a chance to hear from the counties. 4 MR. MORGAN: Hello, I'm Jon Morgan with APCO with 5 El Dorado county. We very much support the ATCM subject 6 to the changes that may come forth from the other APCO's 7 concerns. So that was my two cents worth. 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. 9 I know Bob will take advantage of your banked 10 credit there. 11 MR. REYNOLDS: Right, we get that time. I have 12 with me Mr. Ross Calper. We both have been with Lake 13 County Air Quality Management District 18 to 22 years. We 14 have a program in place that's been operating for nine 15 years, we think is functional. We followed this program 16 for about two years. Each of us have attended -- one of 17 us have attended every other hearing that your staff has 18 had. 19 And we have several differences. Some of them 20 are just general recommendations from Mr. Calper. And if 21 you would just have the staff respond to his testimony in 22 writing, Mr. Calper's said that I could have his time or 23 we could give it back to you. 24 We'd like to see you move forward today. 25 If you have any questions, of course, Mr. Calper PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 89 1 will be here on through. I don't know how to say it, but 2 there's another cost with asbestos, it's called psychology 3 of people. They take this serious and you need to take it 4 serious. 5 We've had a situation in our state for a long 6 time, at least ten years, where we've known what we have 7 out there, and you've got to move forward. Now, my 8 emotions are, because we deal with all kinds of toxics, is 9 that asbestos is manageable. You can build these 10 serpentine areas. You can do it right and this is a State 11 that has done things right. 12 We consider ourselves one of the best districts 13 in the State. And we consider the State one of the best 14 states in the nation, and we consider our nation the best 15 in the world. We're not archaical people. We can handle 16 this. And I urge you to try to get your staff to do it. 17 Given that, there's two problems with your staff 18 recommendation that we take real serious. The first one 19 is you've got to notice people. You've got to tell them 20 it's there. 21 The second one is the size of one acre is really 22 way too large. The people that are small contractors are 23 really good people. They're the heart and soul of this 24 country. But they don't know about the regulations unless 25 you get them to get a permit. They read things they get. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 90 1 They go through CEQA. They go through these building 2 departments. And our rule, they can get it through the 3 building department or they can come to the air district, 4 and sometimes it's both ways. 5 We have a plan that you can sign and walk out the 6 door with it for small projects. This is very doable. 7 But your present rule doesn't require any noticing. It 8 needs to have a sign. And rather than read the whole 9 thing, I can just reference you to my testimony atop of 10 the second page and I assume all of you guys have had a 11 copy of the testimony. It's consistent with the letter 12 that we filed on the 23rd of June. 13 And it has a recommendation, just had a section 14 called posting and awareness. Now, what we do in Lake 15 County, we actually -- and we've worked this out and 16 people don't object. We have the people come in and they 17 can use our post or they can make their own post. The 18 wording is very specific in our regulation. The weirdest 19 thing is we just sit down and tailgate usually with 20 people. 21 Now, some of the developers, it's real 22 interesting, have actually set up a little place and every 23 employee signs and makes sure they work, because you're 24 worried about their liability. I'm a little worried about 25 liability on this in the future, too. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 91 1 We try to keep people to keep all the serpentine 2 on the site, if they can. On occasion they have to haul 3 it. 4 And this works out real well, because once you 5 let the employees know, you don't have an enforcement 6 problem. They understand it's real. You don't have a 7 CalOSHA problem because you have no dust floating around. 8 And people don't have to be worried about monitoring 9 because there's nothing to monitor. 10 So I'd suggest that the awareness and posting is 11 very critical. I would suggest that you use on the second 12 page lines one through ten as the recommended wording and 13 just add it, insert it into the ATCM you adopt today. 14 Now, as regards to the area, most counties, I 15 think really use 10,000 square feet for grading permits 16 and they usually go through the public works department. 17 They usually don't go through the building departments or 18 planning departments, which is kind of a little 19 difference, so you've got to be real careful about the 20 term grading departments, because they still go to the 21 building departments to get permits and stuff. 22 Mr. Calper is tied into CEQA, so we usually get 23 the chance to talk to everyone ahead of time. And if they 24 can do it ahead of time, that's okay with us. If they 25 don't do it ahead of time, they've got to come and pay for PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 92 1 a permit from us, and so that gives them an incentive for 2 them to do it ahead of time. 3 But we can go down to 260 linear feet or 160 4 square fee. We've seen some terrible trenching problems 5 when we first started. There's been trenches going across 6 Lake County that are 40 miles long to put in optical cable 7 or steam lines or water lines or sewer lines. So 8 trenching is a real serious issue, because it's also right 9 along the side of the road and a lot of those don't want 10 to put the material back in the whole, because it doesn't 11 pack so well. 12 So it's really important to get trenching in 13 there. You have no requirement for a simple dust 14 mitigation plan for trenching. 15 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: So if we pass this, does that 16 preempt you from putting your own -- 17 MR. REYNOLDS: I think ours stays in place. I 18 hope that's the way it works. That's Ross's. I'm sorry. 19 I think it stays in place and we're not going to 20 adopt this ATCM, the way you're doing it. We'll modify 21 our rule and we'll try to make this thing workable as we 22 can. Your staff deserves a compliment. I don't want to 23 sound like I'm not complimentary. There's all kinds of 24 things that they have done right here, okay. I'm just 25 saying these two things here need to be changed. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 93 1 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Okay. 2 MR. REYNOLDS: Now, what we use is we use 160 3 square feet or 260 feet. And Mr. Calper deals with 4 multi-projects and it hasn't been a problem. What we 5 decided we would do is recommend to you, and it's included 6 in lines 37, 38 and 39, that you do at least no worse than 7 ten times the federal standard, which is the same as 260, 8 160 square feet, that would give you a half mile of 9 trenching, give you about, you know, 2,600 square feet, 10 it's not much. It's enough for a house. It's enough for 11 things like that. 12 You can put a small building in and still not get 13 a planning permit, but maybe not a dust mitigation permit. 14 But 2,600 square feet is a reasonable number. And I think 15 the plans could be real simple for simple projects. They 16 do need to be complicated for complicated projects. 17 We mention in our testimony one project Jack in 18 the Box put in .6 acres with 27,000 cubic yards off site. 19 It's a good project, by the way. 20 Thank you. 21 Any questions? 22 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. Staff, I asked 23 the question earlier about what's the magic about one 24 acre. And I can see why that does seem pretty large. 25 What's the deal, how do you respond to Mr. Reynolds? PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 94 1 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: I 2 think the one point that needs to be clarified is that for 3 commercial operation the one acre exempts from them having 4 to get a permit. It doesn't exempt them from dust control 5 measures. And there are specific dust control measures 6 specified in the regulation that they must do. So it's a 7 matter of do they have to get a permit for that? 8 There are other districts who felt that the 9 administrative burden associated with that and the burden 10 on small businesses was a significant issue, and so that's 11 how we've structured that regulation. 12 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: What about the notification 13 there, because I know -- we heard other comments about 14 that, that people should have a right to know that there's 15 an issue here. 16 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 17 We've talked internally about that a great deal. I think, 18 you know, we certainly feel that the district is the most 19 appropriate agency to make that determination. That's 20 consistent with how we handle the AB 2588 hotspot program, 21 where the notification provisions is with the district 22 level, so that's why we've kind of stayed out of that one. 23 Some of the agencies like Bob that have been very 24 proactive in that are able to work with their planning and 25 building departments to be able to implement that. Some PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 95 1 of the other agencies it's a bit more difficult on, but 2 there is nothing to prohibit those agencies from deciding 3 that they want to make that a requirement. 4 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Some encouragement on our 5 part might be helpful. 6 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 7 Definitely. I mean that's an area, you know, as follow up 8 to this. We're also going to be doing implementation 9 guidance to assist in those areas where there's district 10 discretion. There may be opportunities in there to 11 suggest that that is an approach that may be used. It's a 12 little difficult. 13 Do you do that across the entire range all sizes 14 of asbestos operation, all locations and all that or do 15 you do it for the bigger ones. 16 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Questions, comments from the 17 Board? 18 Mr. McKinnon. 19 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Yeah, just real quick. 20 It occurs to me, I mean an alternative to noticing, I 21 mean, I think in some situations requiring noticing may 22 start a holy war in every neighborhood that it happens in. 23 But it also occurs to me even for smaller, I 24 mean, one homeowner parcels, there's certainly a need for 25 people to know about naturally occurring asbestos, and PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 96 1 about how to deal with it. And, you know, how to treat it 2 and that kind of thing. 3 And it occurs to me that there's probably a need 4 in the El Dorado counties and some of the places where 5 there's a great deal of this, for their to be kind of 6 educational materials. And we've probably done some of 7 that. And I'm wondering what we can do in that area or 8 maybe that's another day, but it seems like -- 9 MR. AMES: May I respond briefly. Yes, we've 10 held community meetings in El Dorado County and so forth. 11 We think we can do a better job, a more extensive job 12 throughout the State in areas where the ultramafic matches 13 growth. And so we're committed to doing more extensive 14 outreach, putting more information readily available on 15 the web, so that individual homeowners working in their 16 yard know of the potential hazard to their children and to 17 the neighbors and best ways to mitigate any of those 18 exposures, so we are committed to doing that. 19 MR. REYNOLDS: Chairman, can I just add some to 20 it. It was in our testimony, but I want to reemphasize 21 it. The reason we're objecting to the staff's position as 22 just expressed is that small contractors, small operators 23 will never know that they have a prohibitive rule in 24 place. You will go down there write them a ticket, you 25 will start the Holy War you're talking about. Don't do it PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 97 1 that way. 2 Have the people in the process come through, have 3 them acknowledge, post it, acknowledge the problem, show a 4 little discipline and never have a war, never even have an 5 argument now. 6 An air district can be in a good position, if he 7 says look the guy has got the site posted, he's following 8 the regulations and the plans that's in place they're 9 going to protect you. If he has to instead run down there 10 and see if dust is going across the property line, you 11 just started your holy war. And I'm asking you not to go 12 forward today without sticking both of those in there 13 because they need to be in there. 14 Thank you. 15 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. 16 James Wagoner. Thank you very much. 17 James Wagoner, then Alice Howard, Joe Vargas, 18 Toni Johnson. 19 MR. WAGONER: Thank you, Dr. Lloyd and members of 20 the Board. I'm Jim Wagoner, the Assistant Air Pollution 21 Control Officer of the Butte County Air Quality Management 22 District. I have submitted written comments and I'll just 23 be very brief on a couple of points. 24 First of all, we have a couple of concerns. The 25 exemption for sand and gravel in Section C4, that's PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 98 1 difficult for us to understand on what basis the air 2 pollution control officer would be able to exempt a sand 3 and gravel operation from processing materials that have 4 naturally occurring asbestos. Yet the way the proposed 5 regulation is worded, it appears that the APCO could do 6 that. We feel that certain exemption criteria should be 7 provided as guidance. 8 Secondly, as we understand the proposal, the 9 initial applicability determinations will fall on the 10 owner/operator or the air pollution control officer. If a 11 project is within a mapped ultramafic rock unit, this 12 should be pretty straightforward. 13 However, if the area is outside of a mapped 14 ultramafic unit, there could be considerable uncertainty 15 regarding the applicability. While serpentine may be 16 fairly recognizable to certain members of the public, the 17 various suites of ultramafic rock are certainly not. To 18 be certain, the owner/operator or the air pollution 19 control officer will need to contract a licensed geologist 20 to conduct an evaluation of the area. And failure to do 21 so would create a liability for both the owner/operator 22 and the local air district. 23 And finally, I'd point out that for many air 24 districts this regulation will impact many general 25 construction activities that currently are not subject PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 99 1 directly to air district regulations. These are folks 2 that we don't deal with on a day-to-day basis. As a 3 result, there may not be an awareness regarding air 4 quality issues, and we need a public education program to 5 implement this effectively. 6 Since there is no funding coming forward with the 7 regulation to help the air districts in a public education 8 program, we have a fear that the necessary education may 9 come through enforcement activities, which we don't feel 10 is an effective way of getting the word out to people. 11 That concludes my comments. 12 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. I think, again, I 13 heard a number of times the need to do more in the 14 outreach, education area, and I think that hopefully our 15 staff can do that. 16 Did you have a point, Ms. D'Adamo? 17 Thank you very much. 18 Alice Howard, Joe Vargas, Toni Johnson. 19 MS. HOWARD: In the interests of brevity, I will 20 yield my time. I have submitted written comments. 21 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much and thank 22 you for your consideration. 23 MR. VARGAS: Yes, Hello. My name is Joe Vargas 24 and I also support the ARB regulations for today and I do 25 want to donate my time to Melissa Vargas. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 100 1 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. 2 MS. JOHNSON: Toni Johnson. I'm also passing in 3 the interests of time. I do support the ordinance. 4 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. 5 Sorry, then we have Earl Withycombe and then 6 Melissa Vargas. 7 MR. WITHYCOMBE: Good morning, Chairman Lloyd and 8 members of the Board. My name is Earl Withycombe, the 9 volunteer chair of the American Lung Association of 10 California and the California Thoracic Society Government 11 Relations Committee. I presented some written testimony 12 to the clerk of the Board. Hopefully that's been 13 distributed at least to the Board. For that reason I 14 won't read the testimony in total, but I'll highlight a 15 handful of points. 16 The American Lung Association feels that 17 monitoring, ambient monitoring, should be required for 18 every project under this regulation. It should not be 19 left to the discretion of the local air pollution control 20 office, at least whether to monitor or not. 21 The reasons are explained also in a separate 22 letter I sent as an individual. Personal monitoring at 23 roughly $30 a sample is a minimum level of monitoring that 24 should occur on these projects as an early warning sign as 25 to whether fence-line monitoring needs to be conducted. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 101 1 There must be enforcement provisions in this 2 regulation to ensure that mitigation plans are being 3 carried out as required. The ambient air monitoring is 4 occurring and public health is protected. Without 5 adequate enforcement this becomes a symbolic regulation. 6 We recommend the reporting requirements and 7 penalties for noncompliance, such as are contained in US 8 EPA's Asbestos Hazardous Emergency Response Act, AHERA, 9 and air pollution control district asbestos removal 10 regulations be incorporated into this control measure. 11 The exemption for road construction and 12 maintenance projects at remote locations should be revised 13 to require a screening risk assessment be submitted and 14 accepted in writing by the air pollution control officer 15 demonstrating that the public health will be safeguarded 16 if control requirements are waived. 17 We strongly recommend that you amend the no 18 visible emission limit at the fence line as an appropriate 19 level of control for large properties over five acres. No 20 visible emissions at the fence line equals no control. 21 Instead, we recommend that you apply the no visible 22 emission standard articulated in Section D1B of your 23 proposed regulation, which attaches to all construction 24 and grading operations. 25 D1B applies to road construction projects. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 102 1 There, you're imposing a no-visible emission standard. We 2 think it's entirely appropriate to extend that to all 3 other projects. Preventing visible emissions only at the 4 property line will not protect public health, because at 5 by the time they're visible emissions at the property 6 line, it would be impossible to contain or control for any 7 potential asbestos fibers. 8 Thank You. 9 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Any questions? 10 Thank you very much. 11 Melissa Vargas. 12 (Thereupon an overhead presentation was 13 presented as follows.) 14 MS. VARGAS: My name is Melissa Vargas, and I'd 15 like to briefly give you an idea as to why we, the public, 16 feel that this is an important step in protecting public 17 health and safety through the mitigation of construction 18 quarrying and mining operations and we're supportive of 19 ARB's proposed regulation. 20 --o0o-- 21 MS. VARGAS: We have road cuts. We have traffic 22 going by these road cuts that are being exposed during 23 windy events. 24 --o0o-- 25 MS. VARGAS: We have construction events going up PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 103 1 and ultramafic rock and serpentine deposits exposing 2 residents on Highway 50, so we're talking about huge 3 construction projects occurring. 4 --o0o-- 5 MS. VARGAS: In a lot of these areas, we have 6 special concerns and support the lower vehicle mile per 7 hour. This is a vehicle, just a small car driving 20 8 miles an hour, so we definitely encourage you to lower 9 traffic speed. 10 Again, we have more exposed surfaces, high 11 construction. Developers are just taking this material 12 and dumping it over on the hillsides. 13 --o0o-- 14 MS. VARGAS: We have piles that are left open and 15 exposed such as this. 16 --o0o-- 17 MS. VARGAS: Exposing people, like of all places, 18 baseball fields. We have children being exposed to a lot 19 of these areas that are uncovered, housing developments 20 occurring in these exposed areas, leaving them exposed. 21 We have quarries that aren't following any dust mitigation 22 measures at all. 23 --o0o-- 24 MS. VARGAS: There's no standards exposing -- 25 leaving these areas exposed. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 104 1 --o0o-- 2 MS. VARGAS: Again, huge piles left exposed. And 3 you can't even begin to imagine what it's like during a 4 wind event. 5 --o0o-- 6 MS. VARGAS: This is what a quarry looks like 7 when it's operating without any dust control measures. 8 This is a house. This is dust. That's dust. 9 --o0o-- 10 MS. VARGAS: And nobody in this room can tell us 11 what the level is before we're going to get cancer. This 12 is another example of dust. 13 --o0o-- 14 MS. VARGAS: And another example. 15 --o0o-- 16 MS. VARGAS: And finally another. And these are 17 the reasons why we encourage you to adopt and approve 18 staff's recommendations, because it's our lives that are 19 being affected, and these measures are reasonable. 20 Thank you for your time. 21 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you very much. And 22 thank you for your dedicated efforts on this particular 23 issue. We appreciate it. 24 With that, I guess we have no more witnesses 25 signed up. A couple of things before I open it up to my PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 105 1 colleagues here. I would like to ask staff to, if we can 2 do more in some of maybe the outreach area, some of the, I 3 think, maybe the education area, how we can be more 4 protective of the public and how we could maybe try to 5 respond to some of Mr. Reynolds' comments there and to the 6 Lung Association. I know that if the staff has any 7 specific suggestions, that would be nice if we could have 8 them. 9 MR. AMES: Mr. Chairman, let me take the first 10 attempt here. In terms of the Lung Association's 11 comments, we think that there is more we can do for 12 example in enforcement. We can follow up to further 13 evaluate ways, we can be sure the regs are uniformly 14 enforced and enforced on a regular basis. As far as 15 public information and outreach, we believe that a much 16 better job can be done in making information readily 17 available to the public and that is, in turn, will have an 18 air quality benefit. 19 It was mentioned that we should be doing more 20 monitoring. One thing we probably could do is explore 21 funding mechanisms in ways that we in the air districts 22 could do more monitoring. And for those instances where 23 there is monitoring required for a project, we could work 24 with the air districts to explore ways to make that 25 information readily available. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 106 1 As far as Mr. Reynolds' comments go, I think 2 we've already responded that, number one, the size -- 3 there is no commercial operation that is exempt. Controls 4 must still be applied. I think there may be somewhat of a 5 misconception by some of the commenters on taking one step 6 back on the visible emission limit at the property line is 7 not adequate, implying we don't have control. Controls 8 are required in every instance at the point of source. 9 That's just kind of a backstop measure. 10 As far as public notification, I wanted to 11 clarify that quarries which emit asbestos are subject to 12 hotspots program to quantify, and if necessary notify the 13 public. So we already have that provision in place. And 14 projects are so widely variable some of which only last 15 two or three days, we just don't think that from a 16 statewide perspective we can -- there may be situations 17 where it's not appropriate, so we would be glad to work 18 with the districts on some suggested guidance on when and 19 where to post, where there may be true hazards to the 20 public being exposed. 21 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: I'd like to suggest also it's 22 fine to have information on the web, but I think we've got 23 to be more proactive in that, so that's -- I would say 24 that's maybe necessary but not sufficient, but we try to 25 do some more. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 107 1 MR. AMES: Yes and maybe what we can do is like 2 we did in El Dorado county, perhaps hold some community 3 meetings and invite the general public and try to work 4 with the media to get the word out. 5 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. 6 Board members? 7 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Just a couple of 8 questions. One of the issues raised by the representative 9 from the Forest Resources Council. The timeframe for 10 approval by a local district, what would that timeframe be 11 in the event that we uncover or industry uncovers issues 12 that cannot adequately be responded to? Would we have 13 enough time to receive that back and receive a report? 14 MR. AMES: I'm sorry. I'm not sure I fully 15 understand the question, but we are committed to putting a 16 provision in the regulation that that timeframe can be 17 shortened. And there's many ways of doing that of 18 providing information upfront and we've worked -- we've 19 already talked to the air districts, particularly those in 20 northern California, that would be impacted by this 21 portion of the measure, and they seem very amenable to 22 giving a quicker turn around. 23 They understand the problem with the 14-day 24 timing. The way we planned to modify the reg rule will 25 enable a much shorter timeframe. PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 108 1 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Perhaps, I didn't make 2 myself clear enough. I believe it was Mr. McKinnon who 3 raised the issue that there may be some overlapping 4 requirements. And staff responded by saying that this 5 could be something that local districts could address. 6 I'm just anticipating what would occur in the event that 7 those overlapping requirements prove to be -- in addition 8 with what we're doing today, prove to be too onerous. 9 Is there enough flexibility that the local 10 districts would have? If not, will we have a report 11 coming back to us so that we could address that issue? 12 EMISSIONS ASSESSMENT BRANCH CHIEF DONAHOUE: 13 Yeah. I certainly -- you know, right now at least as far 14 as the design of the regulation, we do think that there is 15 a flexibility, because it's set up that with the laundry 16 list of options they can -- the district has the authority 17 to include or not include some of those and take into 18 consideration some of those. 19 It seems like something that we're going to have 20 to track. I'm not certain how many of these would end up 21 being remote or otherwise, but, you know, I think that's 22 an issue that we're going to have to follow. We think the 23 flexibility is there. We think it can be done in a 24 reasonable time frame. 25 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: Okay. And then Eugene PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 109 1 Cunningham, a witness that raised the concern regarding, I 2 can't remember the region of the State, but I think we 3 should try again with BLM. If there's anything that staff 4 can do just informally, that's something that I would 5 certainly support. 6 EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR KENNY: We're happy to try 7 again. Actually, we're very concerned about Clear Creek. 8 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Any other comments by 9 colleagues? 10 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: The only thing I'd like to 11 say, Mr. Chairman, is that it seems to me, and I would 12 want it included in the resolution the agreement for the 13 way out if proven by something acceptable to mines and 14 geology. I think that's a very reasonable approach to 15 that. I'd like to see that included. 16 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Thank you. So I now close 17 the record on this agenda item. However, the record will 18 be reopened when the 15-day notice of public availability 19 is issued. Written or oral comments received after this 20 hearing date, but before the 15-day notice issued will not 21 be accepted as part of the official record on this agenda 22 item. 23 When the record is reopened for a 15-day comment 24 period, the public may submit written comments on the 25 proposed changes which will be considered and responded to PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 110 1 in the final statement of reasons for the regulation. 2 And just a reminder too, since it's a regulatory 3 item, a reminder to my Board colleagues, if we have any ex 4 parte communications. 5 Mr. McKinnon. 6 BOARD MEMBER McKINNON: Yeah. On July 11th, I 7 had a conversation with Mark Pawlicki of Simpson Lumber 8 Company. All of our conversation was included in his 9 testimony today. There was nothing other than that. 10 Thank you. 11 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: So with that, I would like to 12 take a moment to look at the resolution and would 13 entertain a motion. 14 BOARD MEMBER RIORDAN: Mr. Chair, I'd like to 15 move approval of the Resolution 01-28 with the addition of 16 the proof of option out included. 17 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: And I think to reflect the 18 comments that we had along down there in education, et 19 cetera. 20 BOARD MEMBER PATRICK: Second. 21 BOARD MEMBER D'ADAMO: And the technical changes. 22 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: All in favor say aye? 23 (Ayes.) 24 CHAIRPERSON LLOYD: Unanimous. 25 So, again, thank you very much. Thank you, PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 111 1 staff. Thank you my colleagues, board members. I would 2 officially like to close the July 27th ARB Board meeting. 3 I'd like to thank my colleagues for all your efforts in 4 the last two days. I'd like to thank staff for coming 5 here on all the items. And I'd like to thank the staff 6 involved with the preparation for this bay area meeting, 7 so thank you all very much, indeed. 8 (Thereupon the Air Resources Board meeting 9 was adjourned at 11:10 a.m.) 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345 112 1 CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER 2 I, JAMES F. PETERS, a Certified Shorthand 3 Reporter of the State of California, and Registered 4 Professional Reporter, do hereby certify: 5 That I am a disinterested person herein; that the 6 foregoing California Air Resources Board hearing was 7 reported in shorthand by me, James F. Peters, a Certified 8 Shorthand Reporter of the State of California, and 9 thereafter transcribed into typewriting. 10 I further certify that I am not of counsel or 11 attorney for any of the parties to said hearing nor in any 12 way interested in the outcome of said hearing. 13 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand 14 this 3rd day of August, 2001. 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 JAMES F. PETERS, CSR, RPR 24 Certified Shorthand Reporter 25 License No. 10063 PETERS SHORTHAND REPORTING CORPORATION (916) 362-2345